If you do less than 20 km per year forget about diesel ...
Diesel is only recommended for long journeys with a lot of freeways (dealers tend to forget to mention this kind of thing these days).
People all want to buy diesels while many only make relatively short trips.
In addition, particles are a real health disaster !!!
Personally I have owned for a long time a fiat Cinecento Sporting 1.1 (petrol), certainly quite rare, but a super body (240 km with almost a mini maintenance), moreover it holds the pavement very well, and does not cost much to maintenance and consumes little (000 to 4,5litres per 5km).
Ax, Saxo, zx? Buying a used economy car
-
sen-no-sen
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6856
- Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
- Location: High Beaujolais.
- x 749
I do not recommend turboD because they combine the disadvantages:
The Citroën AR trains, but they are not the only ones, take with age, bodywork:
The suspension arms are mounted on bearings housed in tubes. They are connected to the body by rods passing through the center of the bearing. The problem comes from the fact that these arms work on a very low degree of rotation and that the bearings are not sealed and the grease escapes in the tube.
This results in wear, play, squeaks ...
The ideal solution, on an arm in perfect condition, is to make a hole to pierce the envelope of the tube and to screw a greaser. Then, fill with a grease gun until it comes out on each side of the tube. With lubrication every 2 years, your arms will last 200 years.
As the bearings only wear over a barely 15 ° angle, I knew a mechanic who disassembled them, cleaned them, re-greased them abundantly as explained above and reassembled them by shifting them by 30 or 45 ° for the to work in an area where they were not worn ...
I remade the arms on my BX, a long time ago, I was young, but it inflated me seriously, the hydraulic suspensions adding "an additional pleasure" ...
The mechanic who would have given me a quote for 3000 € would remember ...
As for the default, if it exists, it is perfectly manageable, as I have just explained. Keep in mind that wear comes from vehicles over 200.000 km or very old (dry grease) or used in the mountains or by the sea (salt) ...
Here you are, you now know a little more about PSA AR arms.
- Consumption, because they lead to crime ...
Pollution and significant smoke with age
Mechanical accessibility
to change the glow plugs, for example ...Reliability, because many additional pipes and accessories.
You are talking about an AR train of an AX, a ZX or a Xantia.Did67 wrote:... at 340 km no longer passed technical control due to the deformed rear axle. Repair cost: more than € 000. Not found for scrap because design flaw.
The Citroën AR trains, but they are not the only ones, take with age, bodywork:
The suspension arms are mounted on bearings housed in tubes. They are connected to the body by rods passing through the center of the bearing. The problem comes from the fact that these arms work on a very low degree of rotation and that the bearings are not sealed and the grease escapes in the tube.
This results in wear, play, squeaks ...
The ideal solution, on an arm in perfect condition, is to make a hole to pierce the envelope of the tube and to screw a greaser. Then, fill with a grease gun until it comes out on each side of the tube. With lubrication every 2 years, your arms will last 200 years.
As the bearings only wear over a barely 15 ° angle, I knew a mechanic who disassembled them, cleaned them, re-greased them abundantly as explained above and reassembled them by shifting them by 30 or 45 ° for the to work in an area where they were not worn ...
I remade the arms on my BX, a long time ago, I was young, but it inflated me seriously, the hydraulic suspensions adding "an additional pleasure" ...
The mechanic who would have given me a quote for 3000 € would remember ...
As for the default, if it exists, it is perfectly manageable, as I have just explained. Keep in mind that wear comes from vehicles over 200.000 km or very old (dry grease) or used in the mountains or by the sea (salt) ...
Here you are, you now know a little more about PSA AR arms.
0 x
The problem comes especially that they are poor needle bearings of ridiculous sections ...
The scandal is that PSA, which has been aware of the 205, has done NOTHING to remedy this problem, when 2 grease fittings and two tapping cost them € 3 ... These rear axles are still new ... on xsara and other...
on the other hand ... To advise against a turbo compared to an atmo..On the same driving it is 10 to 20% less consumption with the increase in engine efficiency in the interesting regimes of maximum torque ...
To change the preheating candles ... (every 40) a disassembly of the exchanger (000 or 4 screws 5 collar) is not death compared to the additional approval ...
The scandal is that PSA, which has been aware of the 205, has done NOTHING to remedy this problem, when 2 grease fittings and two tapping cost them € 3 ... These rear axles are still new ... on xsara and other...
on the other hand ... To advise against a turbo compared to an atmo..On the same driving it is 10 to 20% less consumption with the increase in engine efficiency in the interesting regimes of maximum torque ...
To change the preheating candles ... (every 40) a disassembly of the exchanger (000 or 4 screws 5 collar) is not death compared to the additional approval ...
0 x
In ideal conditions of use, yes.Macro wrote:on the other hand ... To advise against a turbo compared to an atmo..On the same driving it is 10 to 20% less consumption with the increase in engine efficiency in the interesting regimes of maximum torque ...
To change the preheating candles ... (every 40) a disassembly of the exchanger (000 or 4 screws 5 collar) is not death compared to the additional approval ...
But this is rarely the case, we make far too many short trips, the EGR valves, the turbo get dirty, and it quickly becomes unmanageable ... In the end, the gain in agreement which is real and very high is paid for exponential ...
We then enter the divergent spiral dear to Michel Kieffer that we should all take for command # 1 of the perfect econologist.
Other point; Repetitive maintenance interventions are often a source of damage by the mechanics themselves (broken plastics, messed up or lost screws, poorly repositioned wires or pipes, etc.) are the cause of a large percentage of breakdowns ... :x
This reflection makes me think: that if there is on this site a definition of econology, we are still missing a CHARTER with its 10 commandments. 
0 x
Extract from the definition of econology
# Reducing the environmental impact of our lifestyles (at all levels) while maintaining an almost similar quality of life.
# Reducing the dependence of our societies on fossil fuels.
# Reducing consumption of fossil fuels.
# The search for alternatives to fossil fuels.
# The R&D of less energy-consuming technological solutions in order to satisfy the previous points.
Similar quality of life: so we stay with a vehicle that can double a heavyweight
Less energy-consuming vehicle: a turbo consumes less at equal performance than an atm
reduction in the consumption of fossil energy ... The ZX TD with its bosch pump and its injectors at 175bars ... We hardly found better and more practical to get there
I think if PSA it was a bit dug the head to put a small turbo on his 1.5d, it would have made small saxos very econologists
When the EGR valve is clogged ... Stop saying bullshit and present us with substantiated elements to open a constructive debate ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/economiseu ... 96-60.html
# Reducing the environmental impact of our lifestyles (at all levels) while maintaining an almost similar quality of life.
# Reducing the dependence of our societies on fossil fuels.
# Reducing consumption of fossil fuels.
# The search for alternatives to fossil fuels.
# The R&D of less energy-consuming technological solutions in order to satisfy the previous points.
Similar quality of life: so we stay with a vehicle that can double a heavyweight
Less energy-consuming vehicle: a turbo consumes less at equal performance than an atm
reduction in the consumption of fossil energy ... The ZX TD with its bosch pump and its injectors at 175bars ... We hardly found better and more practical to get there
I think if PSA it was a bit dug the head to put a small turbo on his 1.5d, it would have made small saxos very econologists
When the EGR valve is clogged ... Stop saying bullshit and present us with substantiated elements to open a constructive debate ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/economiseu ... 96-60.html
0 x
Well, I haven't taken 500 engines apart.Macro wrote:When the EGR valve is clogged ... Stop saying bullshit and present us with substantiated elements to open a constructive debate ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/economiseu ... 96-60.html
But the last cylinder head that I disassembled (opel astra 1.7L ecoturbo from 1997) had at only 100.000km a deposit of tar 1cm thick over the entire interior surface of the intake ducts from the EGR valve.
It was impressive.
0 x
citro wrote:
[/ List]You are talking about an AR train of an AX, a ZX or a Xantia. :?:Did67 wrote:... at 340 km no longer passed technical control due to the deformed rear axle. Repair cost: more than € 000. Not found for scrap because design flaw.
The Citroën AR trains, but they are not the only ones, take with age, bodywork:
You are usually sharp on Citroën.
Here, I'm talking specifically to you about the ZX.
Citroën engineers had (again!) Had a genius idea at the time: the "flexible" half-arms which gave the rear axle a "self-directional" effect (it was also in the ZX ad in the time)...
But hey, they have trouble studying the aging of flexibility and suddenly, the bar of the half train can deform, the wheel tilts and ... ends up rubbing against the body. And you can imagine how it ends.
So this is not a game in the bearings, but a deformation of the train (or half-train). And it is a congenital defect on this model. All of course are not reached, but there is a serious risk ... at least not negligible.
Nothing to do with your Alpine (finally the Alpine on your photo) where it is a V-shaped half-train and where it is the suspension adjustment that plays and tilts the axis of the wheel. It was the same on the R8 etc as soon as they were loaded ...
0 x
No no DID..It's because the bearings are completely exploded that the wheel will rub in the wheel arch ...
The "self-tacking" effect of the ZX is in fact caused by the silenblocs attaching the train to the body which make the rear end behave in a way like that of a skateboard ...
In general it often happens after a change of ownership as citro says ... A great classic: the grandpa has never transported anyone behind the xsara ... A family buys the beautiful grandpa xsara and the two moms at the back of the xsara push the rear train more than the yorkshire of granny ... The needles of the bearings which had seized break causing his girlfriends not seized ... A nice carnage ...
With in addition the torsion bars which function in torsion + bending ...
For the EGR it was obviously irony ... The combustion with hot CO2 as oxidant ...
The "self-tacking" effect of the ZX is in fact caused by the silenblocs attaching the train to the body which make the rear end behave in a way like that of a skateboard ...
In general it often happens after a change of ownership as citro says ... A great classic: the grandpa has never transported anyone behind the xsara ... A family buys the beautiful grandpa xsara and the two moms at the back of the xsara push the rear train more than the yorkshire of granny ... The needles of the bearings which had seized break causing his girlfriends not seized ... A nice carnage ...
With in addition the torsion bars which function in torsion + bending ...
For the EGR it was obviously irony ... The combustion with hot CO2 as oxidant ...
0 x
OK OK. I learned something.
And then I misunderstood my mechanic. I understood that it was a distortion of the train ... (without bunker badly inspired by this pub of the time - I was very temporarily the user of the first ZX) ...
My apologies to Citro ... (for having implied that he did not know what I thought was a specificity of the ZX train) ...
And then I misunderstood my mechanic. I understood that it was a distortion of the train ... (without bunker badly inspired by this pub of the time - I was very temporarily the user of the first ZX) ...
My apologies to Citro ... (for having implied that he did not know what I thought was a specificity of the ZX train) ...
0 x
I read very technical comments my time!
Well, I looked on the zx 1.4i side (the price differences with the 1.9D are not very noticeable but present), what mileage can I hope to achieve by means of a conventional maintenance with this type of vehicle?
240.000 as sen-no-sen with the Cinquecento?
Regarding this future vehicle, 95% will be for regular journeys of ten km ...
Thank you and @ soon
Well, I looked on the zx 1.4i side (the price differences with the 1.9D are not very noticeable but present), what mileage can I hope to achieve by means of a conventional maintenance with this type of vehicle?
240.000 as sen-no-sen with the Cinquecento?
Regarding this future vehicle, 95% will be for regular journeys of ten km ...
Thank you and @ soon
0 x
Frederic
Back to "New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ..."
Who is online ?
Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 139 guests