GLOBAL AUTO 2008: the king is naked!

[Woodcutter]

I would like to take this opportunity to put forward a very simple idea, that of making electric vehicles equipped with a Hydroquebec or Michelin engine / wheels, powered by batteries, themselves recharged by a generator placed under the hood. The batteries being recharged "on demand", they would be less numerous, hence a gain in weight and cost; for the generator set, it must be possible to design something quiet, compact and fuel efficient, especially since it would not run continuously.

well done, you just re-invented the hybrid-series
this is the case of the kangoo electro-road where the heat engine is only used to recharge the batteries.

Ah good did not know, thank you dirk pitt. Is there any more specific information on this heat engine / generator?

Just for your information, the Chevrolet Volt is a plug-in hybrid-series ...

[bham]

Just for your information, the Chevrolet Volt is a plug-in hybrid-series ...

Ah thank you but I see this:
http://www.moteurnature.com/actu/2007/c ... t-volt.php

This is a pleasant car to drive every day, for the right foot as for the wallet, since GM has calculated an average consumption of 4,7 l / 100 km. The Volt is thus more efficient than a Prius

It is not a little bcp (on a European scale) for a car which uses its engine only to recharge its batteries, and even if it is only a concept?

GM then takes the opposite of Toyota, and explains that if you don't want to recharge, okay. But to get the best efficiency and reduce pollution, you have to recharge.

In terms of efficiency compared to primary energy, what is better to do? Recharge via the heat engine> efficiency around 30%? or recharging via the electrical network, therefore thermal power stations> efficiency around 30%?
What about pollution?

[Christophe]

In Germany (48% coal-fired electricity, 600 g / kWhe) a small electric car that needs 0.2kWh mechanical per km therefore rejects AT LEAST 12 kg of CO2 per 100km, i.e. the CO2 equivalent of an Hdi that consumes 12 / 2,6 = 4,62 L / 100 km. https://www.econologie.com/europe-emissi ... -3722.html

The average for the Europe of 15 is 460 g / kWh ... have fun doing the equivalences

In the USA, 80% of coal-fired electricity, you can increase these figures by 50% (but hey it's still much better than average cars in the USA) ...

This just for the production of electricity (manufacture and recycling of batteries which last 2 to 3 years not included)

Fortunately, CO2 is not the only criterion for electric vehicles! https://www.econologie.com/voiture-elect ... -3944.html

In addition we have still not solved the problem of taxation of road electric kWh ...

Watch out for the GreenWashers guys!

[bham]

Thank you Christophe, go dig your file! there is so much to read and so much to do in a day

[Remundo]

Hi Bham,

I put the little Cleanova link:
http://www.cleanova.com/public/rubrique ... 8147&hl=FR

It is a series hybrid like the Kangoo Elect'road. Only, electronic management and batteries are more sophisticated (5 years of battery evolution in the meantime) ...

The series hybrid is really one of the best ways to go.
- All the advantages of pure electric (no gearboxes, a lot of torque at start-up, recovery of kinetic energy when braking)
- with the autonomy of pure thermal,
- while keeping a classic chassis, therefore identical road qualities and financially damping the famous "platforms" of the manufacturers.

This is the kind of thing Renault could do in France rather than shutting it down to build pure thermals in Eastern Europe

There would be sales ... and jobs !!

[bham]

Thanks Remundo; however when I read:

"Hybrid-travel" mode:

In this mode, the intervention of the combustion engine is optimized so as to stabilize the charge level of the battery even at high speed. It promotes comfort and zero pollution in the city, and dynamic qualities on roads and highways. The journey can continue indefinitely. The "series" configuration, where the generator motor recharges the battery, is preferred at low speeds.. The "parallel" configuration - the two motors and the generator being joined together, in mechanical connection with the wheels - operates at road and motorway speeds. The total power of the traction chain can then reach 100 kW (130 horsepower), offering excellent recovery and ramp crossing capacities.

This means that in parallel configuration the heat engine has a direct mechanical action on the transmission, in common with the electric motor.
But for a small city car, is this parallel configuration essential? In my opinion no, so we can downsize the heat generator current generator and thus limit the problem of battery recharges, right?

[Christophe]

Hybrid, electric, downsizing ... the real problem is not there !!

As long as we have to move more than one ton per 100 kg of payload (average occupancy rate = 1.4) in the city, it does not matter the energy used. An electric car is not above the laws of physics !!

The problem is the very concept of the individual car in town ... and for that it must be recognized that Mdi offers some interesting concepts. I said concepts and not solutions!

There is a good topic on the issue here:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-el ... t6294.html

[Remundo]

Thanks Remundo;

This means that in parallel configuration the heat engine has a direct mechanical action on the transmission, in common with the electric motor.
But for a small city car, is this parallel configuration essential? In my opinion no, so we can downsize the heat generator current generator and thus limit the problem of battery recharges, right?

Yes sir. We can limit ourselves to the series and even almost without batteries.

This is how some of the SNCF's autonomous tractors work: a huge "gégèn" based on a Diesel and a generator powers the electric motors.

For downsizing, indeed, it is necessary to save space for the batteries. This is why I propose in particular the MPRBC, about 4 times more compact at equal power.

Christophe is nevertheless right to point out that urban situations require individual and smaller vehicles., In addition to a good public transport network

@+

[Capt_Maloche]

In any case, I agree with Remundo on the principle of a 15KW thermal engine in rapid charge on a battery or super capacitor and an electric propulsion (integrated or not) in the wheels

it is THE solution ready to be put in series on the production lines, with consumptions of the order of 2L / 100, see that slab if recharging at home

But the electric transport tax was hanging over us, that said, their charging system will be easy to divert

[Christophe]

this is THE solution ready to be put into series on production lines, with consumption on the order of 2L / 100, see that slab if recharging at home

Do you have any others as funny?
Or you forgot the conditional (or the smileys that go well)