Cleanova, electricity and thermal support: boycotted!

[Christophe]

Excellent Serge Dassault interview about the behavior of car manufacturers with respect to the electric car, yet now viable:

https://www.econologie.com/cleanova-de-d ... -3962.html

[Former Oceano]

Indeed, I saw last night too.
The battery pack is worth 8000 € but if the technology developed by Dassault is effective, it is not overpriced.
How much more can be worth a powertrain of a car (motor box)? 2000 €? 3000 €?
Not to mention that the use is found on fuel economy.
Their Cleanova a extensor of autonomy with an onboard generator and fuel 20L.

Otherwise they have developed the technology and they are now waiting for a manufacturer to say "OK, I'm interested, let's go".
But it is true that some are more excited about taking risks on the stock market as technological adventures ...

[Christophe]

The engines 2L hdi / cdi were more expensive (at least at launch): it was rather between 5 and 6000 €. After all depends if you talk about cost price or market value. I have always heard that there is a coef of 6 in the car between price of sale TTC and cost price.

Otherwise I like the sentence he says:

When you buy a thermal car, you do not buy the fuel tank that goes with it.

If I understand it, he talks about a cost of the car (standard) of approximately € 8000 (less complex than a thermal car) and to 1000 1100 € Annual rent (in the budget for 700 fuel 800L ).

[Remundo]

Hi everybody,

Dassault is known for not mincing words and to the point.

Cleanova technology is more relevant than at any point of view. It is also the point in any case much more reliable than the first high pressure direct injection which however were put on the market without many precautions.

But forgive Dassault not want to build an assembly plant when there are already all ready in France (Flins Sandouvilles, Sochaux ...

And forgive builders for failing to grasp the importance of hybrid-series partnerships as they are too busy calculating their social plans to relocate to Eastern Europe.

And forgive our governments for finding 100 billion euros every morning for banks, and just a few tens of millions to subsidize clean transport.

Forgive, forgive ...

[RIAZ]

Yes, Christopher, we do not buy the tank with the new car, but a deferred spending is still an expense.

Today with the numbers we have, the economic benefit to be demonstrated.

150 km range, 1000 cycles (guaranteed for a normal user), it makes a battery 150.000 km which seems not bad ....

8.000 € of battery, that makes us 5,33 € for 100 km to which we must add 1 € of electricity, i.e. with fuel at 1,4 € per liter an equivalent consumption of 4,5 l / 100, it is to say what this kind of car would do with a heat engine. It would even do a lot less if driven on the "electric style" (I practiced!)
Not enough to fire the gun .....

8.000 € is a figure like that, thrown in the air, but which will probably be verified at the beginning and prevent a "general public" introduction. Captive fleets will be led, by definition, by people who have imposed it and who have no particular motivation. You have to see how they did with the first attempts .... The good result is not guaranteed.

Especially since theit ignores that the comparison is between a hyper taxed product and the other is not. In this calculation, it would add taxes to the electrical solutionBecause in any case the consumer will pay.

So we are way off the speaking of a sector works and the progress still to make the batteries remain in one for a long time.

I could add to the risk of being mistaken for a mono-maniac (!), Which if the electric car is sized to consume 2 times less energy, we divide everything by 2, including and especially the price of the battery, and Here, we have a more accessible and useful offer to the energy problem.
It would have the same result with another engine, but finally, it must pass through the power to admit downsizing, why not.
Americans have bought well and not PRIUS 308 or C4 that would have done as well to replace their HUMMER and would have cost them less, then ....

That's why I said it was balot of from a conventional case and the ineffable Serge rushes into a dead end ... in course supersonic! When you have the means, why bother!

This electric car 1,5 - 2 L / 100 (in equivalent energy) I look forward to, because then I could really consider producing effectively my current .... while avoiding being "tackled" with the primary energy consumption. This will not give me the guarantee of not being taxed ...
I micro CHP due this afternoon with a lit heating ....

[Christophe]

Ben Serge Dassault did not speak of 8000 € of battery pack but of 8000 € of "empty" car and a rental of 1100 € / year of battery ...

[RIAZ]

My dear Christophe, thank you for re-listening to the beautiful Serge (from 5 mn and 30 s).
He talks about the rent and he said later that series battery will cost € 4 5.000 to now and to 7 8.000 €. When a seller tells you to 7 8.000 you know which side of the range it will end ....

But back on the rental that you do well to get back in memory because it prevents me from taking the assumptions favorable to electric solution.
Our national Serge talks about 1100 € per year 15.000 km, at € 7,33 100 km; or more than € 2 in my calculation (voluntarily advantageous for electric) ....

Dirt calculator !!!!

[Christophe]

Ben I just re listened just before posting!

Dassault is unclear ... (we already hard to understand!)

I think as he speaks price of batteries and rental it is a Mixed system: purchase and rental: You purchased the car (the base to accommodate the batteries) and you rent the batteries (which wear out). Like that if the technology improves you can upgrade the batteries! Great concept actually like!

Because ultimately an electric car, except the batteries, it is almost indestructible!

Maybe that's what explains the boycott by the builders. Their goal is still to sell new cars ... or we often change car pkoi? Because the engine is HS or it no longer passes the technical control!

The generalization of the electric car would therefore constitute a significant shortfall for car "sellers". I put "" because in sellers I hear the whole chain upstream of the customer but also those who live from maintenance! (very limited on EVs)

[Korben Dallas]

Great concept actually like!

I do not remember where (ecological pact Nicolas Hulot it seems), but I read a proposal along the lines of sustainable development which was to replace the ownership of capital goods by leasing:
- Thus, the products should be designed durable
- It will not be the tenant to manage fault, recycling, etc.
- This will prevent uncontrolled scrapped
- No financial speculation problem of over-indebtedness (at worst, if an individual takes too lease, sooner or later, the materials will be taken from him, unable to pay all its debts).

Remains to be done to change their mentality: the French love ... have not won!

[RIAZ]

Yes, you're right Christophe, our manufacturer is not clear. It is not clear as someone who mumbles a confession, ie the economic impasse of its solution (not to mention the environmental impasse).

I have re-re-listened, he says what I transcribed .....
It is actually easier in her case to blame the traditional manufacturers, draping himself in the role of misunderstood genius.

Strongly agree Korben Dallas regarding the tilting of the ownership of property to the only enjoyment of the use (so-called lease today). This is one of the main ways of reducing the amount of goods and therefore the environmental footprint.
Of course, the manufacturers of such products can find the bitter pill, it's understandable. Either they have a real awareness of the future and they mutate to products compatible with the new energy, or they cling to branches, which will avail them nothing, because they are rotten .......

We must not fear the backwardness of French, they are not more stupid than others. When they are offered something that works, they jump on it (Velib) or inside (tramways in major cities).

As the car of Mr. Dassault does not work, they sulk ......