Cash Investigation: Deadly Diesel

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
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Did67
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by Did67 » 26/09/13, 18:46

Janic wrote:
the State must pass on the drop on one side to the increase on the other if it does not want to lose its taxes.


I think if it was, it would be better accepted.

What promises is that the diesel loses its tax advantage: therefore the diesel will increase to catch up with, and even exceed a little, petrol [we run out of diesel, we have too much petrol; so it would be logical that taxes aside, gasoline is less expensive; so if the government aligns the diesel tax on petrol, diesel will be slightly more expensive]

I haven't heard much about "going down one side ..." lately. Have you read / heard anything along these lines?

[Me, personally, I am for the catching up. I bazardés my Diesel 5 years ago already, when I started to dig the question of particles in connection with ... my pellet boiler ... And that I then discovered this problem which we begin to speak today, no doubt very timely in relation to a tax deposit: it is easier to announce increased taxation when justified by public health]
Last edited by Did67 the 26 / 09 / 13, 18: 49, 1 edited once.
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jlt22
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by jlt22 » 26/09/13, 18:47

This will make more than one jump.

Today there is a strong question of pollution with fine particles emitted by diesel.

In the Rhone Alpes region (for example), fine particle pollution is 24% from diesel and 45% from wood heating. The latter for which we praise its absence of pollution is however in full boom.
My neighbor is heating with wood, and in cold weather, the smoke comes down quickly and when you are outside it takes your throat, to the point of becoming untenable.
Why 2 weights, 2 measures in our French system.

Fine particles: wood heating worse than diesel?

Fine particle episode: 73% of pollution comes from wood heating


http://www.lyoncapitale.fr/Journal/Lyon/Actualite/Environnement/Particules-fines-le-chauffage-au-bois-pire-que-le-diesel
http://www.lyoncapitale.fr/Journal/Lyon/Actualite/Environnement/Episode-de-particules-fines-73-de-la-pollution-provient-du-chauffage-au-bois
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by Did67 » 26/09/13, 18:54

Since I told you that I had dug the question!

So it should be specified: wood burned in bad conditions:

a) wood not dry enough
b) burned in poorly regulated "appliances" ("suffocation" by the draft to "control" the heat produced)
c) without piloting.

This concerns: inserts, "ordinary" stoves, stoves, old boilers ...

This is not true for pellet boilers and, to a lesser extent, with log boilers controlled with a buffer.

In this case, the air / wood ratio is always controlled by an electronic card.

With a buffer, a log boiler turns fully for 2 hours, the high temperature combustion is very clean. The heat is stored in the buffer, from where it is distributed by a regulation ...

I wrote in 2008 that heating with wood is an ecological disaster without these precautions! Even if it is CO² neutral from fossil origin !!!
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by jlt22 » 26/09/13, 19:30

Completely agree with you Did.

But even respecting your recommendations we would not completely reduce fine particles (there would still be 10% it seems)
Is this enough to get under the pollution from diesel?
Recent cars are all equipped with particle filters.

And to get this result, there is a lot of work, because the park of wood heating is huge.

No information is given to the public, nor is there any requirement for wood burning appliances; it sells just about anything and everything.

A link from a commercial company which is worth what it is worth, but which gives interesting information:
http://www.stuv.com/fr/actualites-de-lentreprise/654-le-chauffage-au-bois-pollue-t-il.html
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by Did67 » 27/09/13, 07:42

I think it's a little more complex: all particles are not "equal". Currently, they are classified by size: PM10, etc ...

But the "composition" varies.

Also note that:

a) heating in winter only, if I may say ...

b) Diesel accumulates rejection of CO² of fossil origin AND particles ...

Note that some countries have legislated on the discharge of wood-burning appliances. And that research is underway to adapt catalysts, particle filters!

But the fact remains that the wood is not "all white", it is clear. And I was misunderstood when I posted that "wood was not green!" People didn't want to know at all ... and preferred to yell at me.

[I have a condensing pellet boiler; one of the cleanest on the market, but it still emits particles - I have to compare to a Diesel, but on what basis? particles / m3 of air? data is hard to obtain with homogeneous units. I will try to compare my particle emissions by heating with what I rejected with my Diesels given an average mileage. If I find data]
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by jonule » 27/09/13, 09:08

interesting debate that affects fine particles, when I think of my case I feel a little responsible it's true:
I run in vegetable oil on a Turbo Diesel (we will say for "recycling") + 10% SP95 (thank you Maloche)
I drive diesel + 7% SP95 on a TDi (thank you Maloche)
I heat myself with a fuel boiler, I put a tube for blue flame (thank you Maloche)
all this to reduce the particles because unburnt and loss therefore in economy and therefore in ecology ... I arrived at the best improvements thanks to this forum it must be said, the information is not given it must be sought, it is a real initiative of citizen initiative in my opinion ...

When I read that a large part of the particles is emitted by heating with wood, I did not think these huge figures, but I read the intervention of Did67 with great interest:
my wood stove, is there a subject on the forum for improvement?
I imagine a sort of electric extractor to connect at the outlet of the stove with air / smoke probe which takes heat and which regulates the draft, but without going so far, the question of the buffer tank is more interesting, because it allows to answer to a variety of energies (oil burner, gasifier), so I would like to know:
is there a subject on the forum on the installation of a buffer on its hot water production?
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by Christophe » 27/09/13, 09:54

Yes, there is this kind of subject, do a research.

Otherwise, the documentary also spoke of the famous Nox, not just particles and fap!

On trucks they have been treated for years with Adblue ammonia or other commercial name ... this may come for auto diesel cars for the general public ... the doc shows an equipped psa but obviously the conversion does not work top. .
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by Did67 » 28/09/13, 09:49

It exists : http://www.moteurnature.com/actu/2009/d ... -denox.php


But hey, it's not for us (well, for me!).

Attention: the article is already dated !!!
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LOGIC12
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by LOGIC12 » 03/10/13, 19:22

hello, The cars pollute, okay, but then what about these rallies that we sometimes see with big trucks in the parking lots of hyper markets, and all those cars that roar while doing on site, with big pipes of 'exhaust ???

And also old cars (pucks) which, given their age, pollute a max. They were so rare at the time that there was little concern for pollution.

And besides, we had not yet invented ecology.

We should keep them in museums and not roll them up,

As for rallies, it should be purely and simply deleted, because it pollutes a max, and useless.

We are made to feel guilty when we go quietly shopping, and there, no one finds fault.

As for the planes, given the stench they emit, they pollute a lot and in the sky, everyone takes full .... the figure for not a round.
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Re: diesel




by Flytox » 03/10/13, 21:27

Hello LOGIC12

LOGIC12 wrote:hello, The cars pollute, okay, but then what about these rallies that we sometimes see with big trucks in the parking lots of hyper markets, and all those cars that roar while doing on site, with big pipes of 'exhaust ???


It's too much noise, pollution and waste of all kinds. OKAY.
But not if the most toxic is not this image of motor racing "nice, technological, efficient, exhilarating, easy etc ..." that we want at all costs to embed ourselves in our heads,. ... so that above all, we do not change / question the model of our smoking (how / why we use it).

And also old cars (pucks) which, given their age, pollute a max. They were so rare at the time that there was little concern for pollution.

And besides, we had not yet invented ecology.

We should keep them in museums and not roll them up,


Old cars drive very very little on average. Their contribution to pollution is anecdotal ..... on the other hand they convey (it is the case to say it) the idea that one can make good with simple (there for our car manufacturers, it is to provocation ...: Mrgreen: )


We are made to feel guilty when we go quietly shopping, and there, no one finds fault.

There again it is a "model" of manipulation, with the competition (like football or the games of the Roman circus) we occupy our head in order to better be able to shear away / divert from a better analysis of causes, solutions, remedies etc. ...

As for the planes, given the stench they emit, they pollute a lot and in the sky, everyone takes full .... the figure for not a round.


If all the cars had a performance as good as recent planes (liters of fuel / km traveled), we would have made real progress in pollution ... Besides, they do not "smell" worse than others at equal power. , and it is better that they are at a distance in the air (great dilution) rather than next to in the street to get in the face ...
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