Worcester wheel

[harry ravi]

Hello everybody

I did research on this wheel on the forum but I did not find anything so I thought it would be interesting to offer a post dedicated to this wheel.

This wheel is not a unitary process but a process using gravity in order to obtain a driving force.

I found the information on http://moteur-hackenberger.over-blog.com/ .

Here is a typical image representing the engine.



I hope that I creator of the blog in question will agree to publish this image on this forum.

So here is the wheel.
It is composed of 40 perfect squares and weights circulating in these squares with the air of a flexible rod (rope, chain, .....).

The principle if I am not mistaken is that on one side of the wheel, the weight is suspended on the outside face of the wheel and on the other side, the weight is suspended on the inside face of the wheel.

According to the creator of the blog, this wheel has not been rebuilt since its invention, or it did not work.
It should be noted that this wheel requires good precision which I think can be obtained with current machine tools.


I focused on the calculations allowing to obtain a simple wheel.

If I want to get 10cm squares on the side, I have to add a thickness of 1cm of cardre to support a minimum of weight.
So we have 11cm side frames.
If I want 40 around the wheel (40 is a key figure according to the creator of the blog), I therefore have an internal wheel perimeter of 440cm.
Now it turns out that a circle with a radius of 70cm has a perimeter very close to 440cm (to the nearest tenth of a mm).

This is the basis on which I set myself.

Now I have to try to make a technical drawing to shape frame modules to assemble to create the perimeter of the wheel.


In addition: instead of using a single wheel, I thought it would be better to have two wheels parallel to each other in order to use metal tubes to create the weights.


I need more than the technical drawing of the frame modules to make a proto plexiglass request to a company.

I found free CAD software on the internet but it is not too precise and functional ..... if someone could help me compose a technical drawing, it will be very nice.

[Capt_Maloche]

It cannot work because the mass of the weights is invariable and the amount of energy necessary to climb a weight at an altitude A is equal to that returned to the descent.

the history of the lever arms does not change anything, it is the distance from the axis and the speed of ascent which give the product of the work

[harry ravi]

In this system, the distance from the axis is different.

But I could be wrong.

[highfly-addict]

It cannot work because the mass of the weights is invariable and the amount of energy necessary to climb a weight at an altitude A is equal to that returned to the descent.

the history of the lever arms does not change anything, it is the distance from the axis and the speed of ascent who give the product of work

Thank you Captain!

Energy is definitely a very hard drug ..... Whatever its form, it makes many people lose their mind .....

[harry ravi]

Don't go as defeatist as that ...

I am doing a test with a wheel that is not one .... I made 4 wooden frames of 10 cm inside perimeter ....

I do not know if it works but according to me:

On the right side, top and bottom, the weight is supported by the outside of the frames.

On the left side, below the weight is supported by the outside face but on the last quarter, the weight should be supported by the inside face which is very close to the center of rotation.

So celon moi, for weights of the same mass, its sum of the support distances of the weights with respect to the center is in imbalance on the left side compared to the right side.

I have to finish the 8 frames (to make two wheels in order to have 4 copper tubes filled with beads between the two), install an axle and an axle support.

If it works, I know it will work less well than the real Worcester wheel because the frames do not form a circle but it could be a good way to make a technical drawing to create a real Worcester wheel prototype.

[Capt_Maloche]

GRRR! you can make a model to convince yourself and you will see for yourself, and send us photos.

You have to think in terms of energy, not leveraging
In your reasoning, you only include the distance from the axis at a given time, BUT YOU FORGET THE SPEED and the distance traveled, it is an integral calculation in fact.

in addition, there are many similar arrangements that have never worked and for good reason

The only way to operate a gravity machine is to vary the said gravity (personal, I don't know how to do it) or the mass of your weights

pendulum systems do not change the balance of the system, since they are an integral part of the system. To convince you, make a gif animation with the result of the force relative to the axis on each weight: F = Distance * Weight and speed

... and you add up the forces on each side of your wheel

... and there it becomes obvious: there is more weight on one side than on the other

DO IT

[harry ravi]

I understand that the forces are equal on both sides provided that the weights are identical.

But then I do not understand why you tell me that it does not work because celon me: the weight being fixed to the frame or supported by the frame, if I reason correctly, the weight being applied to the frame, on the right side the weight is on the outer part of the frame, on the other the weight is on the inner part of the frame.

So celon me again, the distance traveled by this force applied to the frame has a faster speed (identical angular speed but distance from the axis more distant) and a distance traveled more elevated (distance from the axis more distant).

So now this is you: F = Distance * Weight and speed

We have at the same time t a higher distance and a higher speed on one side compared to the other therefore a force imbalance on both sides which normally would have to translate this by a movement (one of the laws of Newton if I'm not mistaken)

If you still do not agree, do not hesitate to tell me, because I want this to be agreed but explain me well each process because I am not an expert in physics.

Thank you in advance

[tigrou_838]

hello look at it, in the gravity weel part, you should have some answers to your questions.

http://www.fdp.nu/default_cached.html

tigrou

[Christophe]

This wheel is not a unitary process but a process using gravity in order to obtain a driving force.

...

It locked?

[Capt_Maloche]

.. and you sum the forces on each side of your wheel

... and there it becomes obvious: there is more weight on one side than on the other

DO IT

Do it; draw the diagram of your wheel at an instant t and count the number of weights left and right of your balance

you will see that the sum of the forces is equal, whatever the difference in distance from your axis, because

there are more on one side than on the other
The side sash speeds are different
But the weight flow is constant

DO IT, publish your diagram, and you will realize it without having to waste your time on a montage doomed to failure; there are other subjects that deserve a little manpower

if you don't, i can't do anything for you anymore and i lock the subject