Cahors City Hall team in a Diesel 306 water doping

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Cahors City Hall team in a Diesel 306 water doping




by Christophe » 21/08/09, 16:21

A Town Hall has a car doped with water since early 2008 and I was not yet aware! Here is an e-mail explanation that should appeal to a lot of defender of water doping! (pb2488 you should take some seed ...). I put some comments in italics and bold the most important things ...

My name is Alexandre Tornel. I am employed at the town hall of Cahors, at the service of Finance. I am a pragmatist. At home, 1 + 1 have always given 2.

When I read the first texts on water doping (I do not like this expression of "doping" marked with a negative idea at all), I was quite skeptical. It was at the beginning of 2002. However, I did not stop at this first impression because there was often mention of old patents related to the automotive world.

(I forgot to tell you that I'm a big-and the word is weak- passionate about the automobile and its history)

So I discovered and studied dozens of patents approaching more or less the principle of water doping, read dozens of reports of more or less happy experiences of inventors and other gifted do-it-yourselfers, read hundreds of pages available on the Net.

I made my own opinion and I especially wanted to avoid blindly follow the sheep that were just spitting some imbecility of other sheep who have not taken the care to study this concept. (and God knows we find a lot of sheep on the Net!)

Of course, I have read, among other things, Jean Louis Naudin's experiments, the plain and simple but very effective pages of the "direct reaction" group and followed a few forums including those of econology of Mr. Martz (hey it's us guys !!)

There is no magic with water doping. There is science. And that's all.

End 2007, I was able to convince the mayor of the time to test the project.
Needless to say, most of the elected officials have taken me for a sweet crazy. I know that some people were against this project. "It was not serious, anything big, if it worked it would be, etc., etc. "

It does not matter. The first magistrate of the commune supported me. And thanks to him, the project could be done.

I contacted Alexandre Grégoire from La Pierre Angulaire because the editing he proposed seemed to me the most successful and the most thoughtful in terms of efficiency and safety for the engine. The city of Vitry sur Orne had also used his knowledge and experience in this area. (more informations: water doping in Vitry)

January 2008, I formed a team of three technicians who
wanted to participate in this experiment: the manager of the mechanical workshop and two specialists in welding and delicate work. Then, a feature 306 Peugeot 1998 diesel was allocated to us for the experiment.

In four and a half days, we were able to understand the principle of water doping and equip the 306.

The first results, positive, did not wait. We found the usual results: 25% reduction in fuel consumption and 70% reduction of polluting emissions.

Today, in August 2009, this vehicle is still rolling. He is one of the
Displacement pole vehicles and is used daily.

What did we deduce from this experience? What to think of doping with water?

The idea is good. The principle is quite valid. There are real
fuel savings. There are real reductions in pollution.

The system is effective when the engine is hot. It is therefore better to install it when we know that we will roll more than ten minutes daily and that the exhaust system will warm up.

No need to plan an installation if you use your car only to get your bread 500 meters: the system will not have time to heat and admit that walking, it feels good and in this case, it is better for the environment!

The system works without added "carbon taxes" which give a clear conscience to those who continue to pollute. He is not hypocritical and does not use dangerous products.

If you want to know more about our operation, I suggest you visit the site of Quercy Energie. You will find complete files made by the town hall of Cahors and by Quercy Energie who was also partner of this adventure.
(here is the page in question)

If you want more information, write to us!

Goods.

Mr. Martz, thank you again for the great work you have been doing for a few years (Thanks, it's warm to the heart!)

If you want to ask me for details, do not hesitate!

Looking forward to reading you.

Alexandre Tornel


b) 3 documents to download

- Water doping at the Mairie de Cahors, brochure presentation (2 pages)
- Results and analysis on the water-doped Cahors 306 diesel (12 pages)
- Full technical file: Peugeot 306 doped with water (56 pages)

More technical info:
source

CITY OF CAHORS - DOPING IN THE WATER OF MOTORS

January 2008, municipal agents of the city of Cahors as well as a technician of Quercy Energies, experiment during a formation, an atypical process "the doping with the water of the engines".

Image

The objective of the training: to adapt a municipal vehicle, an 306 Diesel to the process of "doping with water engines" .A technique that remains uncommon, but whose existence is known for a long time thanks to the particular experiments of Paul PANTONE (inventor / patentee). A training that is part of the program of action of the local 21 agenda led by the city of Cahors. After one year of operation the results are very conclusive ...

Image

The principle observed is an optimization of the efficiency of an engine: one takes advantage of the heat, normally lost of the exhaust to transform water vapor into gas type "vue_de_d_us_du_moteur.jpgplasma" that one injects then into the combustion chambers of the engine at the level of the air intake. This results in an improvement of the energy balance of the engine while limiting its wear, consumption and emissions.

Results observed from the observations of the municipal technical officers:

After 1 year of operation: 25% less fuel consumption, and 70% exhaust emissions avoided!
Astonishing that this system is still so confidential! Everyone can suggest their own explanation, starting with too much influence from the oil and even nuclear lobby, and secondly a timidity of the engine manufacturers who still experiment this system on prototypes.


In a context of energy crisis, this type of operation is a strong signal sent to the population, the automobile industry and represents a certain interest for the environment, the financial savings generated, which is why the municipality intends to continue studies on this approach.


Not sure that this is confidential, for proof this renault patent on the water injection posed recently mentioned in this subject... it seems that at Quercy, they had information on some experiments?
Last edited by Christophe the 16 / 05 / 13, 10: 24, 2 edited once.
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by Christophe » 21/08/09, 16:59

Here is more information:

a) A nice diagram of the assembly

There is a trick to adjust the flow with "booster" and "depressor", on the other hand the carburetor on a diesel I do not understand?

Image

b) 3 documents to download

- Water doping at the Mairie de Cahors, brochure presentation (2 pages)
- Results and analysis on the water-doped Cahors 306 diesel (12 pages)
- Full technical file: Peugeot 306 doped with water (56 pages)

I strongly invite doping enthusiasts to read these documents in detail, because there are new elements!
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by Other » 21/08/09, 17:27

Hello
Beautiful editing

Map
Mounting for gasoline engine inlet audesus of the carburettor

The same mounting applies on a diesel ..

What is original is security organ to recover drops of water

the preheated air and steam mixer at the reactor inlet
the air-vapor dosage is calibrated by a nozzle and also ensures a certain amount of steam suction in the SGS

At this point it is necessary to make a measurement of temperature just before the reactor inlet a too big reheating of the air of the booster is not foregeuse.

In use it is the constant level tank that requires a little cleaning (which I replaced by a small tank with control of electrical level)

Andre
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by Christophe » 21/08/09, 18:12

Yes André, it is a specificity, to read page 9 of the document of 12 pages which I have just read and so here is the essential: https://www.econologie.com/mairie-de-cah ... -4127.html
The author could have mentioned either my name or econology because the history is almost a copied / pasted some passage of the site (including this page on explanations and hypotheses)

We found that the steam was generated immediately at each throttle.
The water condensate is well rejected: the security organ OS works perfectly.
Indeed, this small device prevents a direct projection of water in its liquid form in the combustion chamber and thus prevents premature wear of the piston head.


The engine seems to emit less rattling.


"Dynamic" opacity:

Before system installation: average value of K: 0,23 m-1
After system installation: average value of K: 0,07 m-1
Either a pollution reduction of 69,565%


Results.

At 30 March 2009, after more than a year of testing, the observed results are as follows:
- reduction in the average fuel consumption stabilized at 25%: from 7,42 L / 100, we go down to 5,57 L / 100.
- Reduction of the opacity of the fumes (due to unburnt) by almost 70%.

Water consumption is approximately 30 centilitres for 100 kilometers traveled.


(quite weak as water conso but if it's enough ...)

In addition, rainwater, slightly acidic, avoids scaling of the system and allows better conductivity of water.


What have we observed?

During this test period, drivers used this modified 306 for small business trips in the city and surrounding countryside (Water and Sanitation service). Others have traveled long distances in one go (Administrative and Technical Services).

The system is even more efficient when the vehicle has a steady and steady engine speed.

Indeed, the reaction chamber is heated more rapidly and is maintained at a high temperature. Water vapor is produced regularly and continuously. The environmental impact is real and the fuel economy perfectly recognized.


Another technical problem: the trucks studied (most new or very recent) are all equipped with a system called intercooler. This method of cooling the gases supplied to the combustion chambers causes a size problem: the vapor condenses and micro-droplets of water will eventually perforate the heads of the pistons.


Not entirely agree ... the intercooler decreases the T ° but is far from reaching the dew point! Otherwise the water of fog or contained in the air would also condense (which would do a lot of damage).

Otherwise I like the final conclusion!
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by Other » 21/08/09, 19:08

Hello
My computer is having trouble uploading I will try later in the evening to read all their files
I just managed to see a file ..

In my case every time I try to reduce water consumption I have not had good results
ideme when the steam ratio is too big, preferable to have more air than too much steam (I guess they tried several jet)

For a consomation of 6 liters of diesel it takes me 1, 2 liters of water to have a good performance (I can spend 1,8 liters without drowning the reactor but without economy)

The sytem (s) starts up in a long descent, everything gets cold, but the water's inetire is too long you end up wetting the stem and it takes time for it to be operational.

They will find different ways to counter these drawbacks
he understood that it was necessary to trap the big drops.
What is important is to talk about our problems and our findings, the different methods to correct them are variable according to the montages
Although my system differs a little from theirs, the principle remains the same except that I preheat weakly in input and more strongly in exit which could explain the higher temperature of exit reactor which varies from 120c to 180c on my sytéme (although I do not know their values?)

It is necessary that their driver also learn to drive with water doping because of the increase of torque it is necessary to exploit the reports of greater speed more quickly, to use the engine with the regime of its maximum torque on main road
It will be noticed that on a test roll to 60kmh consumes more than roll 100kmh 110kmh
That in low vitese better not to send steam into the reactor just air to keep it dry.

It grazes me 25% in mixed driving with differrent driver is the numbers that we find, but when the guys talk about 40% and 50% I feel like I missed my editing

To make an ideal test to get out the maximum,
I do a little tour of 15 km once the engine warm, I go to the full pump, as well as water and driving 200km on a hilly road to shoot the engine, it rises exceptionally 34% otherwise it rolls in from 25% to 30% depending on the type of traverses so we have similar values.

Andre
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by pb2488 » 26/08/09, 23:29

Hello,
7.42 L / 100 for a diesel 306? still!!!
Cdlt
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by Other » 27/08/09, 06:21

Hello


pb2488 wrote:Hello,
7.42 L / 100 for a diesel 306? still!!!
Cdlt



Mouai to see, not figure check:
A C15 that makes 8.25 l / 100 and a 306 diesel 7.42l / 100, it seems a bit huge for a diesel, especially since I have a diesel 306. A testbed with a qualified organization would be de rigueur, I think.



You have not had to often measure consumption on your car

(A service car in a city heated by several drivers that does not often walk on highway)

Start by measuring urban runs with many stops and departure
route country road
Highway route
Mountainous tour

And redone all these tests summer, and winter complie all this is averages. Just that, it takes 20 times more time than doing a water doping mount and once the editing is done it is necessary to repeat the tests.

Tell me the difference between winter and summer on your 306.
Put it on the test bench for an 8 hours maybe you have the right time.
When a guy makes 50000 km he takes all his fuel and the total km ..
the other test you roll until you run out of fuel if you go well beyond the usual slippage distance and the manufacturer is that there is something ..

Andre
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by Woodcutter » 27/08/09, 09:02

pb2488 wrote:Hello,
7.42 L / 100 for a diesel 306? still!!!
Cdlt
If people are not careful, it is quite possible with a large proportion of city. In addition, the Cahors region is very "hilly" so it doesn't surprise me more than that ...
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by Christophe » 27/08/09, 09:52

pb2488 wrote:Hello,
7.42 L / 100 for a diesel 306? still!!!
Cdlt


In the city with a vehicle that does not belong to you and for which you do not pay the fuel ... well it's even low as consumption for a vehicle of 11 years ...

And after transformation = performance of a hdi ... and may be even better because it is assumed that the behavior of drivers has not changed: they do not pay more attention than before ...!

Again: you are speculating behind your pc ... being far from reality!

So, check the consumption of company vehicles driven by employees!

Frequently we see construction vans loaded a max overtaking us at 130-140 km / h and accelerating "fully"! The driver, what he wants is to meet the deadlines or go home for a drink ... the consumption he does not even look at ... I do not think that a construction van in these conditions goes below the 11-12 L / 100 ...
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by Byr » 27/08/09, 12:36

Hello, regarding the consumption of 306 1.9D:
I use a 306 1.9D from September 98 every day with which I annually perform 60 000 km / year as a professional.
The average daily distance is 6 - 700km / d mainly in major cities and motorway links.
I systematically collect all my fuel purchases made full to full (45 - 48l) 9 times on 10 in 2 same supermarkets. The kilometers traveled are also precisely measured each time.
On the 410 000 km traveled with the air conditioning permanently + recycling and the same engine (original and without intervention apart belt distribution), the average summer consos oscillate between 5.2l and 5.6l, and those of winter between 5.6l and 5.9l.
However, I never exceed 110 km / h and roll in 5th from 50km / h.
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