Consumption tests reliable! Flowmeter or weighed?

[bolt]

on the link there is the description of the flow meter that I bought ...
accuracy +/- 2% already, 1000 pulses per liter
so I set the bike computer to diam = 1000mm. only I noticed that there is a factor of 10:
test with a 2L bottle and it tells me 23km traveled => 23L consumed. There should also be a small difference, because I weighed before testing and I had approximately 1,9L !! ?? but it does not matter since we proceed by difference, therefore with the same error ....

hello lio74
your result is normal considering the link below
http://www1.produktinfo.conrad.com/cgi-bin/dlc/dlc.cgi?art=155374&ins=62&lang=FR

(bad translation on the conrad site)

if you spent 1.9 l for 23 in reading, put 1210 instead of 1000 mm to program your bike computer and try again

(you will undoubtedly be obliged to keep the factor 10 because it would surprise me that you can mark 12100 mm there)

bolt

[lio74]

(bad translation on the conrad site)

if you spent 1.9 l for 23 in reading, put 1210 instead of 1000 mm to program your bike computer and try again

bolt

hi all of you

Thank you bolt ... we will say that it does not matter this factor 10, because it gives me a 4-digit number hihihi ...
the stripping I will touch that ... I had been lazy for now!

No the differential depends on the quantity of liquid which passes in the small exchanger (I say very small)
The goal is not to heat the diesel but to measure the flow.
It is the principle of air flow mass and certain hot wire flow meter.

I had not read ok ... i've heard that somewhere! mass air flow ...

I can't wait to wait! Good luck ! May the force be with you

yeah, if the great Jedi masters help me he shouldn't be worried ...
besides I would have liked to have the opinion of Camel ... but I already think I know his answer => the weigh
I think they did it during Didier Merco tests !?

Like that, at any risk, there would be no one who cuts sheet metal ??? to redo our head gasket ... it's 8 or 10 tenths thick ...

@+

[Other]

Hello

The question is how long will the rotor last in diesel?
It takes good plastic better than petrol.

Andre

[lio74]

Hello

The question is how long will the rotor last in diesel?
It takes good plastic better than petrol.

Andre

yeah ... well normally it is planned for that! but it's not stainless steel or ceramic either ...

for Flytox:

The "x" is expensive in time etc ... but it is all the more reliable the larger it is.

for the "X" we thought we would do 3 tests of 3 per day ... I think 3 hours is enough ... then 1 in the morning and 2 tests in the afternoon it goes well ... but we will do 3 ttpe of tests on !! for the oil / diesel tests we will see ... if we manage to block the week, it still makes 6 days of testing all that

See you soon with photos
Lio

[Other]

Hello

There is another problem when we measure in a loop
the filter and the conduits make a kind of buffer, this volume of diesel fluctuates, it drops when you accelerate then feeds on fresh gasiol, the reading is not as instantaneous as you might think, even it indicates reverse values.

example a boost and we do not start again an increase in consumption, after we release we stabilize at 110kmh, this indicates a big consumption, to stabilize 2 to 3 minutes later when the buffer of the loop has fulfilled ..
The same thing if you attack a rating, nothing at the beginning, but that indicates consumption when you resdescent ...

It becomes more precise with stabilized driving on a flat highway, it has too much inertia to draw immediate conclusions.

Those who have a facet pump to power the loop, just listen to it pulsating to know the consumption.

the ideal would have been the system a Michelm measures the swelling of an injector tube or at least the injection time.
a kind of piezo pressure switch on an injector line, the injection pressure being constant according to the tarrage, the time that this remains in pressure is directly linked to consumption,

In the industry it is often used to detect anomalies for large reducers, and in the automobile the knock sensor is in this same principle, auto material readily available with the modules. .

Andre

[Flytox]

Hello André

There is another problem when we measure in a loop
the filter and the conduits make a kind of buffer, this volume of diesel fluctuates, it drops when you accelerate then feeds on fresh gasiol, the reading is not as instantaneous as you might think, even it indicates reverse values.

It may be a bubble buffer, I had a similar problem, it was there that I realized that my diesel pipes circulate lots of bubbles upstream of the injection pump. (My pipes which feed the float flow meter are transparent)

Once purged it works slightly better for the engine and much better for reading the flow meter. I tightened all the collars, changed a few pipes and fittings ..... and I still have bubbles.

Even when stopped, the volume of the bubbles increases slowly (especially in hot weather). This weekend I am changing the pipes going and returning from the tank which have good mouths (flexible, clean, dry and not cracked).

I would end up finding the leak ......
What surprises me the most is that it can work "normally" by consuming all this air in the diesel.

[bolt]

It may be a bubble buffer, I had a similar problem, it was there that I realized that my diesel pipes circulate lots of bubbles upstream of the injection pump. (My pipes which feed the float flow meter are transparent)

Once purged it works slightly better for the engine and much better for reading the flow meter.

hello flytox
in closed circuit (feed pump loop, injection pump, injection pump return, filter) passing through a feed pump (with "piston pushed by a cam" or "paddles") creates places, especially on the suction side, where pulses of pretty deep depression and this has the main effect of degas diesel (it shows the dissolved gas: there is always)

and to dissolve it again in the liquid, it must spend some time in the middle of the liquid and same time under strong pressure
in other words, when it was degassed (which here has nothing to do with some air intake), it is almost impossible to get rid of it without removing it from the closed circuit

to extract it without returning diesel to the tank, I know this system:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post22326.html#22326
to see in the subject "mercédes 300dt" as well as the perseverance of michelm to reproduce it

bolt

[Other]

Hello

In my case I'm sure, it's not bubbles, these Mercedes models are almost self-priming
there is only one transparent pipe and I do not see bubbles

When you operate in closed loop it is almost certain that you have bubbles in the circuit they remain at the top of the filter it is as if the filter became a small reservoir with its return
(this is one of the reasons that on a diesel there is a return to the tank and also to make a large circulation which lubricates the low pressure pump)

When operating on a looped circuit, there is no reason to have bubbles in the diesel circuit from the tank to the loop (this is where we measure consumption), but for the loop to be powered it is necessary that it drops internally of the filter and only the diesel pumped by the facet or other, comes in, it is there that it has a delay we can roll a good end with a filter half empty, the continuous return to brew diesel.

If you replace the diesel fuel line at the rear, put a larger 3/8 and + pipe to possibly work with oil, this is one of the problems in sending the oil forward.
in a loop the return must have a restriction, the pump sucks in through a restrictive filter tee if the outlet is too generous that ocassione of cavition and bubbles. in normal mounting the length of the return duct is sufficient to make a restriction.

(in my case I do not pump the oil, I have a pressurized outboard tank with the turbo, so stable flow without pulsations like the facet, but the disadvantages of having a tight cap, and the risk that if a conduit to break the big mess in the suitcase of the tank.)

Andre

[camel1]

Hi Lio!

I followed your thread, which relaunches the debate on the # & #! # !! %% consumption measurement ...

So, if you want to proceed with a REAL flowmeter (and not the gadget from Con rad, you have to click about 500 €, and it happens there:
http://www.navman.com/Navman/Templates/productinformation____22129.aspx

The complete manual (very interesting, and in French please! ) right here :
http://www.navman.com/upload/Marine/Internet_Manuals/3000/3200_tdx_fre_web.pdf

Basically, you have a flow meter at the inlet of the pump, and another at the discharge.
A temperature probe allows the computer to correct density variations, which gives good reproducibility and precision of measurements ...

I intend to equip our future BE with a style model, ideal for development ...

besides I would have liked to have the opinion of Camel ... but I already think I know his answer => the weigh
I think they did it during Didier Merco tests !?

you said it!

While waiting for the Navman, a good household balance at 30 € and a DIY tank (recuperation), with the start -> pump and the return on it, by doing timed weighings, it definitely does ...

Like that, at any risk, there would be no one who cuts sheet metal ??? to redo our head gasket ... it's 8 or 10 tenths thick ... @ +

As Mr. Spock would say, there is always another solution.
Go to the pros, they sell special joint paste, which can replace or repair a cylinder head gasket ... at the limit, you can recover the "punctured" gasket, and put it back with this kind of product, by doing just be careful not to block the lubrication and cooling holes, and presto!

Come on, get excited, Lio, we can't wait to "see" this damn electro band spinning!

And by the way, to load it, think about the Emmaüs solution, they have lots of old electrical convectors, you choose them around the 1500 / 2000W, you shunt the thermostat, and you put them in // (plan the 10² for the drivers , so you do not have losses online), and then you can choose the load you put on the group, as you please

And since you charge in pure resistive, you have no problem with the cos phi & co, it is ideal for measuring your useful power!

Go, good luck friend, and do not take the lead with your aquarium flowmeter

Michel

PS. Bravo for your association and your site, great synergies to come!

[bolt]

Hello André

during tests with this flowmeter, we had to wait 10 to 20 seconds to read the encryption of the flowmeter (that it be stabilized)

it took more time to stabilize when you changed the speed than when you changed the load:

because by changing the speed, the feed pump varied greatly its flow and the flow passing through the pressure regulating valve implied a certain pressure difference between the speeds (higher pressure drops with a higher flow)

we felt the hoses harden during acceleration and at the same time probably they swelled a little, garnering a small volume of additional diesel in the closed circuit, and virtualizing an instantaneous consumption higher than reality during the increase in volume (only a few seconds)

we were still waiting for the instantaneous hourly flow rate to stabilize:
see the results in this file:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/public2/essaiconsojd4255.xls
SHEET 1 and SHEET 2

bolt