Pantone assembly for experiments and measurements

[divad_nitram]

Hello,

I am currently working on a Pantone mount on a stationary 4T gasoline engine (Bernard type 110 Ter), which we will try on gasoline, alcohol, water ....

The objective of this assembly is to arrive at temperature and flow rate measurements to obtain a certain repeatability in the endothermic reactor assembly.

The reactor was made as long as possible with material found in a catalog of water supply equipment.

The tube that receives the exhaust gas is stainless steel 316 against the inner tube and the cores are standard steel (indeed to have a rod to the stack pile length and threaded at both ends it is difficult with the easy stainless steel with steel).

The reactor components:

- 1 stainless steel tube 316 26x34 l = 200mm
- 1 steel tube 15x21 l = 300mm
- 1 soft steel cores l = 250mm
- 2 Stainless Steel Tee 316 26x34
- 2 discounts FF 26x34-15x21
- 2 reductions FF 26x34-15x21 whose tapping 15x21 has been removed
- 2 copper joints diam 22
- 4 quarter turn valves 15x21

Basically it takes again the assembly of the plan of Jean Louis Naudin.
I have photos but I have trouble to put them in the text ....

Today we are at the finalization of the assembly on the engine, I eagerly read the forums dealing with the subject on the internet, I will tell you what I am going to do, your comments are welcome.

On this engine the intake and exhaust are on both sides of the cylinder so the pipes that will go to the intake will be quite long because the pantone gas must flow against the flow of exhaust gas (correct? ). does it mean that there is a problem of condensation and braking of the gas in the pipes? the copper seems adapted, can we use the solder on these pipes? (I had beaten collars but it cost me an eye!)

The output of the reactor will be connected to the engine inlet via a venturi made with the brake line brake (diam ext 6 diam int 4). I intend to drill the carburetor body before the butterfly, after the sprinklers, so as to benefit from the maximum suction (correct?).

Then we will start the tests with a suction bubbler (bubbling air and not exhaust), I read that it worked, what do you think with an engine 350cc?

At the measurement level I read that the most interesting for the operation of the reactor was the temperature at the output of it, using this temperature with a PID assembly should be able to control the proper operation of the reactor. To validate this, I will also measure the flow of gas through the reactor, and the inlet temperature of the reactor (to measure the amount of heat absorbed by the endothermic reaction).

For measurement I will have a 4 acquisition unit channels, a flow meter, 4 thermocouples.

The bernard engine will be charged by an asynchronous three-phase motor used as a generator on an electric radiator

In parallel with that a friend of mine has recovered a generator GEET out Pantone workshops (engine TECUMSEH HM100 generator 5KVA, we will try to measure the same parameters above (use gasoline in the reactor) .I then wish to try the GEET in water essence.

Then I will try the assembly with carburetor (as on the group GEET) then injector driven by accelerator and T ° output reactor.

The second objective of these measures is to be able to measure the savings made in fossil fuel but also in pollution (buddy in technical control center).

For the tests of conso, do you know if there are standard measurement protocols (duration of operation, load regime ....)?

I have photos not too big to show you but I do not capture how we insert them.

thank you for this forum, I do not quote the names but frankly make sure !!!!!!!!

A+

David

[Other]

Hello

For this assembly you have the good engine capacity to make this experiment.
You'll learn faster than a car
foresees an easy disassembly of the rod to examine it inside and intcchanging it, for differrent materials, the copper outlet duct is good and easy in fulle panton it must be at the shortest connect with tip evasing the welds does not resist very well.
The rod you will make tests just a stem without centrator simulated cut square (the differrence is not great)
Previst a polivealence at the entrance of the reactor, to try a bubbler early at the beginning just to see but not very convenient to walk for hours, a small carburetor reduced model is simpler adjustable in wealth and can walk to the alcohol mixed with% oil water quite easily. to walk with vegetable oil is more complicated, to adjust and take a bubbler, but it works
put a thermocouple on the exhaust at the inlet of the reactor and one at the outlet, it is the differrential of these two temperature which will be your guide for the adjustment of yield, which you will confirm with the measurements of consomation.
You hook the engine on any generator (old dynamo in my case) in charge on a resistance (stainless steel wire of equipment place in a recipiant of water, to avoid the fluctuation of temperature) and one measures the amperage and the voltage, do not try to overload the engine is less powerful in panton than with its original carburetor, then I proceeded to consumption tests with quantities for approximately 30 minutes of walking
Provides a duct to vent the exhaust out, not too restrictive the noise can become achalant for the neighbors because it will work for hours to make a good test
Often I was doing tests in winter and I found the solution for the noise the exhaust outlet I send it in a pile of snow it becomes silent and it makes an interior igloo.

The single-cylinder engine strolls on the ground and transmits the vibration close to the house it can become tiring for madam, the thing you install on an old tire well attached,
I often let him walk on my own and I take care of something else.

Send me your e-mail I will send you photos of my experimental editing there are too many and it would take the transformers,
Make a small plan of your project not to make all the same mistakes as me and start many times, although if you equip welding is relatively easy ..
What is long is the tests

Andre

[divad_nitram]

I took care to foresee the disassembly of the stem as well as 2 rod to ensure its good positioning in the reactor. I do not understand the square end, I made centering 13mm rod welding in 15 tube, annular space 1mm.

Today the exhaust pipe between the cylinder and the reactor is about 120mm, that of the output of the reactor at the intake is 750mm, it is better that I extend the exhaust and reduced the pantone gas line or I leave like that?
I think that extending the exhaust pipe will not allow the reactor to rise sufficiently in T °, ​​What do you think?

For the noise, I will see to mount a muffler at the exit of the reactor ... we will see, otherwise it is called on a chassis with skates in tube, suddenly it moves more.

Thanks for the advice;)

A+

David

[elephant]

Bravo, dear divad-nitram.

What would be great is that you draw a consumption curve (and if possible pollution) at several load points, eg, empty, 1000W, 3000W, 5000W before modifications.

(and then the same when you have found the right dosag, of course)

[laurent.delaon]

Hello
do not break your head with the rod of the reactor it is useless.
what matters is the water vapor.

Laurent.

[Cuicui]

Hello
do not break your head with the rod of the reactor it is useless.
what matters is the water vapor.
Laurent.

This experiment will precisely confirm or refute this statement, and join the experiments that have already been done by comparing the results with or without stem.

[laurent.delaon]

no to compare the results with or without reactor (it is different from with or without stem ...)
From elsewhere you can start without that it avoids at first to realize and to ask questions on the reactor.
And it's easier to start.

Laurent.

[divad_nitram]

Hello,

First of all thank you for your comments and remarks, André thank you for the photos by email, it helps.

After having reccjected a maximum of experience cited on site, I realize that the engine that I have may not allow me to successfully run the endothermic reactor because of the long lengths of tubing.

A question for regulars: "have you seen the assembly of reactors on single-cylinder engines on which the intake and exhaust are not on the same side of the cylinder but on either side of it?"

this poses a problem for me: the exhaust having to go countercurrent gases that go into the admission I end up with my exit from the reactor opposite the admission .... obliged to put a copper tube 75 cm long to come to take over the admission .... I am almost certain (given the experiences mentioned) that the steam leaving the reactor will condense before arriving in the intake manifold.

Do you think that by plating this tubing on the engine one can manage to minimize condensation?

If not a last question, is someone finally tested the flow meter 27 € at CONRAD, it seems to me not bad to measure conso without doing tests that last for hours ....

For tests with or without rods, they will be done, likewise with a load of 0 100% with impact on the conso.

A+

David

[Other]

Hello
for a doping water the length of the outlet tube is not too disturbing, I would say that too short is disadvantageous.
in your case for a 100% panton it is preferable to a short conduit, if it is not possible you can isolate it with ceramic fiber and aluminum foil, for a 100% panton the temperature of these gases in reactor output reaches the same as that exhaust at reactor output when everything is balanced
so do not worry about condensation, we talk about
300c and even more if the engine is loaded.
the pictures that I send the assembly is not insulated so that you see the details, but you must isolate everything especially if your engine is cooled in the air the blower blows on the reactor ..
Build the reactor according to the configuration of your engine is isolates critical parts.
The hot exhaust part coming out of the cylinder head to the well insulated reactor as well as the reactor, and the reactor panton gas outlet
do not forget to do some kind of venturi with the fresh air intake motor to increase the panton gas suction
The reactor runs with a little air a very rich mixture to not cool too much, the richness of the engine adjusts through the fresh air inlet at the reactor outlet, that you should have noticed ..
So very small carburetor inlet nozzle 3 nozzle has 4 mm maximum diameter, an adjustment on the wealth of fuel is imperative.

Andre

[denis]

to keep the maximum heat, the double passage of gas is good (toy hilux), my future editing will be done like that; it is even better than a very good insulation, even if we can still isolated it all !.