Pantone and pure ethanol

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enzo20134
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Pantone and pure ethanol




by enzo20134 » 28/10/10, 15:26

Hello,

I was wondering maybe a stupid question.
Pure ethanol called E100 contains a small part of water up to 4%.
Could we not then imagine using both the E100 as fuel and as "water" for a pantonized ethanol engine?
Has anyone tried the experience?
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by elephant » 28/10/10, 18:34

Will water, perfectly miscible with alcohol, precipitate or not in the presence of fuel oil or petrol?
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by Christophe » 28/10/10, 18:40

I didn't quite understand the idea but I don't think he wants to use gasoline with ethanol but pure ethanol containing up to 4% water and thus do without additional doping water.

In fact, the effect of doping with water would be attenuated by the presence of this water; it would therefore be an "internal" doping like aquasol or gecam (white diesel): https://www.econologie.com/forums/carte-de-l ... t5978.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/le-gasoil- ... t1234.html

But, I do not believe that there exist on the market on our premises which work, durably, with pure ethanol ... if? On the other hand there are surely in Brazil ... big user of ethanol ...
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by chatelot16 » 28/10/10, 22:27

any gasoline engine with conventional carburetor works with ethanol: it is enough to enlarge the nozzle a little ...

for me it is even a means of development: if an engine works better with a little ethanol in petrol it is a sign that its fuel makes a mixture too rich ... which becomes better with methanol

I have a motorbike that worked badly on petrol: with E85 ethanol it works impeccable: it is simply a slightly worn nozzle and needle

on the same motorbike one day I made a mistake I put water in the gas tank instead of the radiator tank ... it digested it with a drop in power but without failure
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by Christophe » 28/10/10, 23:59

chatelot16 wrote:any gasoline engine with conventional carburetor works with ethanol: it is enough to enlarge the nozzle a little ...


That's what I thought too ... before. Yes it will work but with what reliability?

The manufacturers' flexfuel vehicles have a lot of specific parts: valve, seats, segments ... It is not for nothing.
We talked about it with an exploded engine years ago in I don't know what subject ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php

For your motorbike, you're in luck, because most manufacturers formally advise against using E85 despite the increase in octane ...

Ethanol is like pure oil: it works but the reliability of the engine can be strongly questioned ... And mounting a pseudo electronic kit at 400 €, I am far from convinced that this is enough to protect the engine ...
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Re: Pantone and pure ethanol




by Flytox » 29/10/10, 12:12

enzo20134 wrote:Hello,

I was wondering maybe a stupid question.
Pure ethanol called E100 contains a small part of water up to 4%.
Could we not then imagine using both the E100 as fuel and as "water" for a pantonized ethanol engine?
Has anyone tried the experience?


No stupid question but a good subject for reflection. 8) There are lots of possible assemblies. In the case of just increasing the proportion of water in the E100, if it is an engine optimized for ethanol it should accept relatively well to increase the proportion of water.

Depending on whether the E100 is injected into the intake or into the combustion chamber, this must affect the richness of the mixture and possibly cause a small loss of power, because the proportion of available oxygen or the amount of fuel injected can vary. It would be interesting to know how much water can be reached by improving pollution. (4% water already seems important to me).

In an assembly where the fuel load will pass through a reactor
Pantone ... ?????? André help! : Mrgreen:
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by Christophe » 29/10/10, 12:15

Christophe wrote:The manufacturers' flexfuel vehicles have a lot of specific parts: valve, seats, segments ... It is not for nothing.
We talked about it with an exploded engine years ago in I don't know what subject ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php


found: https://www.econologie.com/e85-superetha ... -3467.html

Image

Even the pistons are specific ... it is certainly not for nothing ...

There are quite a few old subjects talking about conversion kits including: https://www.econologie.com/forums/kit-ethano ... t4609.html
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by chatelot16 » 29/10/10, 12:52

anyway when I see a drawing of engine with pistons as flat, it is a fragile engine which will be broken down at the slightest start of wear ...

It reminds me of the transition to LPG at a time when many engines had valves in economic matters that only held up thanks to lead: it was a whole list of cars not to be operated on LPG

my small engine for generator of old design like the bernard w110 and w122 worked very well with lpg

I made the LPG run a Honda GX160 (camshaft at the head crowned notched in the oil pan) the valves are worn at any speed

since I run on LPG or ethanol from the Chinese generator and it holds up

a brig and straton intek of 5.5hp also worked for a long time with LPG without problem
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by Flytox » 29/10/10, 13:56

chatelot16 wrote:anyway when I see a drawing of engine with pistons as flat, it is a fragile engine which will be broken down at the slightest start of wear ...


How do you make the link between flat piston and breakdown and premature wear? : Shock:
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by chatelot16 » 29/10/10, 14:29

a real piston with a height at least equal to the diameter works for a long time

if it is too flat the guide length is too small the slightest overturning torque due to a dysymmetric explosion will make more force on the skirt, and may even be arched

well on this kind of flat piston is lighter, reduces the height of the cylinder, therefore reduces the weight of the whole engine: it is a good solution for racing engine whose goal is not to make 300 000 km

a normal piston height also allows good thermal contact of the piston with the bottom of the cylinder and therefore limits its temperature: with a piston that is too short, the slightest overheating will be a disaster: I therefore agree: with this kind of engine it is important not to change fuel

when I said that any gasoline engine could run on ethanol I thought of the old engine that I know I unfortunately forgot the too fragile
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