Need advice for Gillier-pantone mounting petrol

[yael]

I told myself that I should include it as a new topic ...

I start mounting on a 1400 cc petrol engine, very simple (4L engine type), hoping that the adjustments will not be impossible.
all your advice are welcome.
The mechanics are in the process of modifying the exhaust manifold, I planned to group the 4 exhausts in one of the engine block output and to pass the reactor through it (it should therefore be warm and very close to the carb) ...
For the air / water mixture supply of the reactor, I had thought of a 125 cc motorcycle carburetor supplied with water by gravity from a tank and connect to the other carburetor by cable (so by pressing the pedal I would act on both carbs simultaneously) to keep it simple. ... according to you how should I adjust the richness of the mixture of small carburetors, rich in water or little ???

photo attached the engine if needed ...


thank you for everything.

[Other]

Hello

The reactor rod the reactor rod air gap must be between 0,8 to 1,2 mm, the length varies from 150mm to 200 mm, 350 mm is too long for nothing.
If possible made in stainless steel, the installation is permanent, in steel after two years there is rust and fouling of the tube stem depending on the quality of the water.
Once the reactor is properly installed to the dimensions (approximately good) you can focus on the accessories around, and easily change the option later, the reactor will not change. the correct operation does not depend so much on the reactor, but on the bubbler and the entry into the engine therefore provides for adjustments and improvements around the reactor, the reactor once installed you almost do not touch it anymore.

The carburetor has many disadvantages, first those in white metal quickly after one month of operation they are all corroded the float and needle no longer become operational.
more to be functional they need a vacuum large enough to work, they must also supply them with hot water or have an expansion chamber in the exhaust to have a good spray.
the reactor must just swallow very fine mist a kind of white cloud, the big drops stop it from operating.
The heated bubbler is much simpler, no need to have a level control you stop and add your level, the level does not affect the performance much

the system that I operate on a V6 petrol engine, it is an entry under the throttle valve, so a strong slowdown depression which decreases with the opening of the throttle valve, but which is still raised around 100kmh
The ERG valve must be eliminated.
To avoid excess steam in the reactor at idle and at low speeds, a small nozzle must be installed at the outlet of the bubbler, i.e. a small short copper tube of 3mm

Andre

[yael]

OK for the stainless steel reactor, however what is the ERG valve ???
I want to mount a bubbler to start at least but heating is it really necessary in the tropics? the coldest is 15 * C in the morning ... and as it will be in the engine compartment it should be warm in a few minutes, but a small coil from the radiator is possible if you say that it works better like that. Also in the case of the bubbler do the seasoned Pantonists connect it to the exhaust via any tube in order to pressurize it ???
Well I realize that I have to ask rebarative questions and that these subjects have been covered many times but certain subjects of the forum contain 50 pages and it is sometimes long to read ...
In any case it seems that we have not yet arrived at a definitive system so let's keep trying, right ?!

[Hedge]

Well I realize that I have to ask rebarative questions and that these subjects have been covered many times but certain subjects of the forum contain 50 pages and it is sometimes long to read ...
In any case it seems that we have not yet arrived at a definitive system so let's keep trying, right ?!

Totally agree with you !

I am a beginner in Pantone, a neophyte in mechanics who does not have what to weld nor grinder ... you have freelanced the level ...

It's been a while since I read as much as I can but it's quickly bushy threads with more than 300 messages and 12 pages ....

And as if by chance I also decided to take action on an old petrol engine with double reverse carbs from 1975, so I will follow your thread with more than certain interest, do not imagine!

Sincerely,
Hedge

[Flytox]

Hello yael

OK for the stainless steel reactor, however what is the ERG valve ???

The ERG valve is a system which creates a circulation of exhaust gases towards the intake gases and which is controlled by a valve. This allows to partially clean up the engine for a low price.
(Reduction of NOx by lowering the combustion temperature and by reducing the quantity of oxygen available).

In the case of water doping, this valve can possibly cause more problems than it solves and André who tried to advise you to block it closed or to transfer it.

I want to mount a bubbler to start at least but heating is it really necessary in the tropics? the coldest is 15 * C in the morning ... and as it will be in the engine compartment it should be warm in a few minutes, but a small coil coming from the radiator is possible if you say that it works better like that. Also in the case of the bubbler do the seasoned Pantonists connect it to the exhaust via any tube in order to pressurize it ???

To function "correctly" the bubbler must be in the 80 to 95 °, even in the tropics it takes energy to reach this temperature. The coil with the coolant works well (consistency of results). It is possible to connect part of the exhaust gases to the bubbler, to heat and / or pressurize. You will need a few adjustment taps to find the "right" upstream and downstream flow and never to boil.

Well I realize that I have to ask rebarative questions and that these subjects have been covered many times but certain subjects of the forum contain 50 pages and it is sometimes long to read ...
In any case it seems that we have not yet arrived at a definitive system so let's keep trying, right ?!

Your questions are not off-putting, we all have the right to start one day and to be a little bit lost in the maze of different posts This does not prevent reading a maximum of Pantone subjects will help you a lot to understand all the subtleties of the montages.

[Angular stone]

Hello,

I advise you not to go on the bubbler version which is boring enough to make and control.

You should do your research on the steam generator which is much easier to install and manufacture and you will get rid of space problems.

Regarding the EGR you can use the outlet on the exhaust manifold to supply your reactor with exhaust gases via this outlet.

Good luck in your editing.

[yael]

I keep reading but sometimes after four hours of reading forum my eyes are spinning I don't know why? javascript: emoticon (': shock:') But it's nice to see that there are people on the subject and brains that are blowing ...
Good then question EGR it is rule seen that there is none it is a very simple engine ...
I am starting to get a precise idea of ​​the assembly but not yet of the GV, does anyone have a precise plan to show me so that I can be inspired by it ???
Another question: Is this someone already doing an assembly or the intake air would only come from the reactor (so large) ???
Will it work ?!


hedge wrote:
"And by chance I also decided to take action on an old gasoline engine with double reverse carbs from 1975, so I will follow your thread with more than certain interest, don't you imagine!"

It must consume as an engine !!! The gillier-pantone will be useful to you ... It's a 205 peugeot ???

[Angular stone]

Hello, as you said camel the space between the rod and the reactor tube is limited to have a good transformation of vapors.

If you make pass all the air flow by the reactor your engine will not follow it av choke. By cons you can divert the maximum amount of air to the reactor and there are different ways.

On a C15 we used a box with an adjustment flap that is found on the 4L on the air circuit with summer / winter position and we had diverted the maximum air to the reactor until the limit of engine suffocation.

Anyway, you have to find a setting between the volume of steam and air that passes through the reactors. I advise you to make two adjustable arrivals on your reactor to be able to manage the two flow rates and make tests.

Otherwise on the GV there is a tutorial which is very well done taken from the direct reaction site, otherwise look at the forum on the 205 with GV, it is not hard to manufacture and install.

It is true that we can say that if it was so simple why we do not use it more but it is like the Gillier Pantone if it worked we would have it on all our cars.
A council tests the GVI and you will be convinced.

Otherwise good luck.

[yael]

hello everyone, the assembly of the reactor on the modified exhaust pipe is finished (finally!) but concerning the production of vapor I would need some clarifications on the part of the experts ...

Two point in fact:

1 ---- The GVI (as described in the assembly for 205 D which uses two coaxial tubes inserted in the exhaust and a constant level valve).
As explained then, it is in fact a boiler !!! javascript: emoticon (': frown:') And it must even damn boil given the temperature and the flow of the engine gases!
Also creating a strong pressure pushing (pure) steam into the reactor and the engine intake.

But those who have mounted bubblers have said that the water should not be boiling or the reactor is malfunctioning? What seems contradictory to me ???

Either we use water in its gaseous form (product of GVI):
H2O pure gas, poor in ambient atmosphere (according to the setting of the valve mounted downstream of the gvi)

Either a saturated air vapor is used (bubbling system):
Ambient atmosphere enriched with H2O gas (more or less depending on the T * of the bubbler water)

My question is: according to your experience what is the form of vapor to obtain?

2 --- will someone have a diagram (simplified) of a constant level valve (is it like the float system of a carburetor?). I need to understand how it works to find the equivalent here. Since heating valves are rare in Thailand and there are none in air conditioning !? Any idea what kind of device could use these valves ???

Thank you.

[Hedge]

hedge wrote:
"And by chance I also decided to take action on an old gasoline engine with double reverse carbs from 1975, so I will follow your thread with more than certain interest, don't you imagine!"

It must consume as an engine !!! The gillier-pantone will be useful to you ... It's a 205 peugeot ???

No, it's a monstrous thing , I made a separate subject so as not to pollute yours, go see the:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/pinzgauer-6x6-essence-reflexion-pour-gillier-pantone-t9340.html

Hop!