Humidity: air saturation curve and% RH, Mollier

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by the middle » 20/08/08, 10:44

Matt, when you say "
but on the other hand when it's drier, it heats better
do you mean we feel better?
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by Matt113 » 20/08/08, 10:48

lejustemilieu wrote:Matt, when you say "
but on the other hand when it's drier, it heats better
do you mean we feel better?


yes less cold feeling so we can heat a little less when it is dry.
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by the middle » 20/08/08, 10:51

Ok, so, I'll start by looking for a valid measuring device, and then move on to "drying" :D
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by Christophe » 20/08/08, 15:44

Ben here is a valid and cheap measuring device: https://www.econologie.com/shop/thermome ... p-135.html


By cons it is broken until late September there ...
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by elephant » 21/08/08, 23:22

To put water (it is the case to say it) to your mills, I am in the process of fitting out an old workshop in "loft". As soon as you enter, you "smell" the fleet. So I borrowed a dehumidifier: in 8 hours, I drew 4 liters of water from the room, which is around 130 cubic meters. Awesome, isn't it?
I can not tell you more, but in a few days I will borrow the hygrometer of the factory (we manufacture, among others, machines to dry compressed air)
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by Christophe » 21/08/08, 23:33

Ah yes it must have been close to saturation! Were there "leaks"?
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by Woodcutter » 22/08/08, 00:10

lejustemilieu wrote:About that:
At home, there is too much moisture in the house. (The poor over 120 years :D )
With 21 degree in the house, one has the feeling of being cold. [...]
Is it certain that it is the humidity that gives you that feeling of cold?
In old, poorly insulated houses, this sensation may be brought by other phenomena.
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by Capt_Maloche » 22/08/08, 00:20

it is the cold wall effect that gives this sensation

the comfort is related to 70% at the temperature of the walls
it can do 25 ° C, if your walls are at 10 ° C, you will always have cold

principle of verandas with a lot of cold surfaces

to compensate, it takes a lot of hot surfaces (floor heating or radiant heaters etc ... or isolate the walls concerned
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by Christophe » 21/10/10, 15:43

Here are 2 other Mollier diagrams including enthalpy:

"Simple" version:

Image

Full version high resolution in .pdf
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... uQHxvN.pdf
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by dedeleco » 21/10/10, 21:19

In 8 hours, I pulled 4 liters of water from the room that made in 130 cubic meters. Awesome, no


Not so much, because we ignore the temperature, if we take T = 20 ° C, probable, with the diagram of 17g / m3 with 130m3 for 100% max of humidity, we obtain for the water in the still air of the room without external source of humidity (dry room and dry walls) 17 * 130 = 2,21 liters of water, and a perfectly dry air !!
So, either humid outdoor air at 100% enters during rainy weather or at 60% in normal weather, at more than 130m3 by 8hours (VMC or leaky openings, ie the walls are well damp and give off full of water, which must feel immediately by touching them, or both at the same time).

To measure humidity, no need for equipment or investing, we take the diagram Fog, humid air given:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post91242.html#91242
and one or two old bulb thermometers at 1 to 3 € to compare the temperature
with the dry bulb, T of the room air, and T bulb with wet cotton in the air wind of the room that cools especially as the air is dry and the diagram with this wet T gives this relative humidity immediately !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrom%C3%A9trie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_de_ros%C3%A9e

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygrom%C3%A8tre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygrometer
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vaporation


At 50% humidity it cools (like our wet skin in the wind) from 21 ° C to 10,5 ° C, which is very cold when leaving a bath at the seaside in the mistral, while a rainy day at 100% humidity coming out of the bath we are not cold, even running (I checked many times this summer while bathing !!)
Moreover, in hot humid countries like India or New York or Chicago in summer, once in two, with 35 ° C and 100% humidity, it is impossible to cool with sweat, which is much more unbearable (moist heat) only in dry weather in the desert where the sweat cool us to less than 30 ° C for the same temperature !!!!
In fact, humans, we are adapted to hot and dry countries with our sweat to cool us if dry air (tropical and not equatorial).
So this curve can easily measure with a single thermometer the humidity without fatigue or invest in something else expensive and superfluous!

In the Sahara, with less than 30% humidity, at 20 ° C, evaporating water or sweat freezes at less than 0 ° C!
An explanation of some Tuareg clothes between the day that burns and the night freezing !!
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