Mercedes 300TD experimentation pantone

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 17/07/07, 23:15

hi Michel
Good luck. It's not easy to hack the car especially since you still have a lot of work to do in your house I guess.
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 18/07/07, 12:55

hi Pitmix
Yes work in the house and another old one in Auvergne to restore when I get bored on WE!
So, when is a gathering of water doped vehicles in the Paris region ?! A parade on the Champs Elysées or in front of the Ministry of Ecology !!
Michel
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 18/07/07, 15:59

Not Saturday 21st because I am from perm but Sunday there is no problem : Cheesy:
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MichelM
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Flowmeter




by MichelM » 04/11/07, 15:00

Bonjour à tous
No I do not drive or so little (so I do not pollute!).
I wanted to test a piezoelectric sensor mounted on an injection hose (steel) to measure the opening time of an injector and therefore deduce the instantaneous consumption.
I know that it was used to dynamically stall a mechanical injection: we detect the deformation of the metal at the time of the increase in pressure and we deduce the opening of the injector.
So I did a test: a piezo cell caught between aluminum parts that will transmit the deformation.
If I do not tighten too much my assembly the signal is strongly parasitized probably by the vibrations.
If I tighten well I have a signal but the problem is that it is weak and that despite the shielded cable a component at 50Hz which disturbs and in addition a continuous component of about 200mV easy to remove. I admit that for the moment I don't see myself easily outputting an exploitable signal to deduce consumption!
I wonder if I will not go back to the classic flowmeter!
Some images of the composition of the sensor and the signal, it is not won! Maybe I should put several piezo cells instead of one to have a stronger signal ...

Michel

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Flytox
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Re: Flow meter




by Flytox » 04/11/07, 18:48

Hello MichelM
MichelM wrote:Bonjour à tous
If I do not tighten too much my assembly the signal is strongly parasitized probably by the vibrations.
If I tighten well I have a signal but the problem is that it is weak and that despite the shielded cable a component at 50Hz which disturbs and in addition a continuous component of about 200mV easy to remove. I admit that for the moment I don't see myself easily outputting an exploitable signal to deduce consumption!


Did you do the test by significantly reducing the thickness and weight of the half piece that encloses the pipe on the piezo side. Your piece is thick and rigid, if you tighten it too hard you risk preventing it from swelling locally and picking up other noises than the swelling of the pipe.

Image

On the side of the piezo which receives the vibrations it would be necessary to put some "couplant" of the grease for example (which lets sound and ultrasound pass well). Indeed even a thickness of a few microns of air completely prevents the ultrasound from passing.

On the opposite side of the piezo which does not receive vibrations you could stick something heavy and absorbent (in some ultrasonic sensors they use tungsten powder with araldite). This is to avoid / attenuate echoes in the sensor itself. Clearly you will have less bizarre signals (bounce) on the oscilloscope screen.

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pluesy
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by pluesy » 04/11/07, 23:21

piezo sensors providing a very high impedance signal (a load resistance of 1mega ohm on a piezo is almost a short circuit !!!) I think that to eliminate a maximum of electrical noise you need to put an amp followed by a filter directly at the bottom of the piezo the current flowing in the cable being a little more consequent (supply of the amplifier + low impedance signal) it will be less disturbable ....
so as not to unnecessarily circuit the piezo signal using a high impedance op amp (bi fet) like TL 071 or 072 can be judicious ....
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 27/04/08, 15:00

Hello everyone.

I hadn't driven in the car for a long time, I didn't put the piezo cell back for this test: round trip Paris Auvergne as usual. I always see a more greedy going than the return when it should ultimately be the opposite !?

Go 385 km very very light wind, car well loaded (with 3 plus tools and various) speed 130, 110, 90, on the odometer. Very little traffic and no trucks.
Average speed 96 km / h, consumption 9,26L / 100km (ELF fuel) with approximately 3 L of water, depression generally at 50 mm of mercury. Reactor outlet temperature from 120 to 150 ° C on average (110 to 130 km / h).

In Auvergne 391km empty but various roads including mountain with strong accelerations to relaunch the car which is heavy and in automatic gearbox. Very variable reactor outlet temperature from 90 to 160 ° C. Driving not so economical and with small trips and the city. 8,84L / 100km.

Back 385 km light north east wind therefore not favorable, some trucks to overtake, speed + 5 km / h on average: 101 km / h, consumption 8,65L / 100km! (Large area fuel). A little less charge (about 3%).
Slightly greater depression between 50 and 100 mm of mercury.

I find it hard to understand the faster I drive, the faster I accelerate, and the less I consume! By driving slowly I do not often have to hang the reactor and on the other hand by accelerating more at times I get to boot the system better ...?!

One day I will have to go back and forth without anything to see the difference, or resume my assembly with flow meter to really know if there is a difference depending on the load and the speed! It is true that this 145CV car is not often fully loaded on a steady speed road, even on motorways it takes significant climbs to request the engine.

Now as I ride most often on a motorbike I have prepared a water vapor doping setup, business to follow ...

Michel
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Other
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by Other » 27/04/08, 17:06

Hello MichelM

Yesterday consumption test in low speed driving, a lot of 50kmh area and village to cross and several stops
It was the kind of behavior that did not favor the system.
May it improve I made 204 km with 12,4 liters.
(Obviously for sure it does not seem good but auto 3 liters automatic, braking stops in red light and stop ..)
I made some modifications with a level detector in the GV, in order to keep it practically dry, just enough water to activate the electric probe and if necessary feed it manually with a small pump, obviously it requires monitoring constant, but before I invest myself fully automatic I want to know the parameters to control.
It remains for me to determine the water consumption at low speeds
at the first abort it seems to me that it takes more water at low revs than in power on the highway ?? , I still have to confirm it, and understand why? it seems illogical to me
but when we do tests we should expect surprises.

For the outlet temperature it is variable once the engine is warm between 120c to 185c most often at 140c 150c

For your figures last year I had the same more economical problem at 100kmh, 110kmh than in the areas of 50km and 70kmh and 90kmh,
I went to get a injector from a member of the forum Tigman and seeing his constructions, when two handymen meet there is a lot to say ...

On the 300D 123 the original injectors are DNOSD 240 with a small central hole, I will test DNOSD 261 without a central hole cut a little higher.
The new Mercedes fuel filters I have the impression that they have tightened the microns, difficulty in working in oil, yet the American GM or Cumins diesels work with 10microns?

Andre
Last edited by Other the 28 / 04 / 08, 06: 26, 1 edited once.
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 27/04/08, 19:22

Hello André

6 L / 100km is exceptional! Consumption according to the technical review is 9,4L at 90km / h, 13L at 120km / h and 10,4L urban cycle for the automatic 300TD 123 series (but without turbo) and my consumption when I had one was between 9,5 , 11L and XNUMXL.
Is it 100% oil?

I may have a problem is that my steam generator is a little far from the reactor, it is under the car (lower part of the exhaust) and I have been wondering for a long time if the temperature is sufficient. I would have to dismantle everything and modify the assembly: shorter reactor and steam generator right next to it to recover the maximum of heat but I am afraid of wetting the reactor in this case ...

Michel
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Other
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by Other » 28/04/08, 06:22

Hello
Is it 100% oil?


It is diesel, with oil, I have not managed to descend under the 7,5 liters per 100km and often it is 8 liters per 100km
I will change the injectors and tare them higher for the oil
In the spring I always have some small problems with the oil filters on the oil, despite a good purge, a prolonged stop when you have already walked in oil, it does a kind of cleaning of the conduits (even the gauge has fuel is lacking, it will take a cleaning)

Andre
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