Impact on the engine lifespan of water doping?

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Paul
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Impact on the engine lifespan of water doping?




by Paul » 08/07/11, 19:40

Hello,
I heard that a pantonist experimenter would have farted his engine.
piston and shirt completely puffed up !!
And after having checked, about the injection of water in aviation during the war by the English, it turns out that the injection was only used in case of force majeure (danger for the pilot) to escape effectively from the enemy
but that back to base, the engine was immediately changed.

Following which, I would like to have some details on the lifespan of a water-doped diesel engine.

André, you, for example I think it's been a long time that you are experiencing, so I would like to know for example how many km you did with the vehicle that you pantonized (a chevrolet I believe) and if by chance or by curiosity you would not have opened the engine, just to see its condition after 50 terminals for expl. (': cheesy:')

Here is to know, I do not necessarily want to break the engine of my truck,
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bernardd
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Re: Impact on the engine lifespan of water doping?




by bernardd » 09/07/11, 10:04

An injection of "liquid" water seems to be a problem with the valves, which can rust. It would be necessary to put stainless valves

An injection of "liquid" water and steam must have different consequences on an engine. If we refer to boat propellers or pumps, sudden pressure variations create phenomena of explosion of air bubbles in the water which violently attack the propellers. I would say that a sudden spray of droplets must also be able to do weird things ...

cf Image

It can also be noted that ethanol always contains water, the proportion of which can easily be increased while keeping a miscible mixture stable: one way of doping with water is to use ethanol.
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Paul
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by Paul » 09/07/11, 12:29

Oulala, not very beautiful this propeller,
What will be the cost of changing your valves with stainless steel valves?
Colossal, certainly, therefore unthinkable.
It is a big reproach that I make to all these pantonist, None to show us the state of its engine after a long use, damage, because it could show us if there is really a risk or not.
some say there is no risk, I remain skeptical.
André, your help could be useful, thank you.
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by dedeleco » 09/07/11, 12:31

No risk of cavitation as for boat propellers, because the droplets do not undergo strong pressure variations such as a rapid flow of dense water around a propeller (the almost incompressibility of liquid water gives shocks, which n do not exist in compressible air), so nothing to do!

Only the rust effect can exist if too much water, especially saline.

But in humid and hot weather the engine also uses air full of water (saturation and therefore water droplets on suction) and therefore should resist as well as engines in hot humid tropical regions (100% humid at 35 ° C like USA east coast in summer or India, air stuffed with water as much as with doping with water), if you do not put too much water in excess, as during a deluge.
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by Christophe » 09/07/11, 12:36

+1 with dedeleco, there is no risk if large quantities of liquid water are not injected ... and in this case the risk of hydraulic tightening is much greater!

Those who are afraid of the (over) corrosion that a doping with water could create do not know that the combustion that 1 L of fuel releases about 1 L of water vapor ... There is no chance that the injected water does not condense on the engine when it is running and when it is not, there is no water that is injected ...

QED ...
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by bernardd » 09/07/11, 12:49

The corrosion problem of "normal" valves was confirmed to me by an experienced mechanic, during his personal and old water injection tests, but not in the pantone method, to be precise. But since these are old experiments, it is also possible that the metals used then were more sensitive.

However, there is a risk and the simple request to conduct a real engine test is justified.

It is not a question of affirming that there is a problem: it is a question of confirming that it is interesting to look at real experiences what we observe firsthand.

The example of the pump destroyed by cavitation is so unintuitive that it must be taught to firefighters ... If it were intuitive, everyone would know it, right? By the way, the theoretical explanation of the energy released in these cavitation phenomena remains subject to controversy, so let us remain humble in this regard.
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by dedeleco » 09/07/11, 12:49

no chance that the injected water will condense on the engine when it is running

certain, given the very high temperature of the exhaust gases and the corresponding poor performance of commercial engines!

In addition on wikipedia Pantone, the assertion that the cold source is the temperature of the gases with input fuel (aka picolino) annoys me because archival and completely irremovable, with incredible obstinacy, to suppress my protests !!

This picolino from a car manufacturer, shows that their design offices have very false ideas in basic thermodynamics!!
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by Paul » 09/07/11, 12:55

That reassures a little,
nevertheless, I am curious to see a comparison (photos) between piston / liner, valves etc of an engine without doping with water and one doped for a long time.
Conceiving that it is difficult to find two engines of the same year having roughly the same mileage, one of which would have been doped with water for at least 50 kms, I would be satisfied with the photos of this engine doped since long time.
My skepticism comes from the fact that its bothering me to break my engine and having to subsequently deny the a priori awesome system of Mr Pantone.
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by dedeleco » 09/07/11, 12:57

the pump destroyed by cavitation is so unintuitive

exists and known since the first engines and propeller boats, more than 130 years !!
What destroys is not the formation of vacuum bubbles at low vapor pressure, but their brutal collapse on the surface by the pressure of dense water all around.
this is a very scientific field very studied with sonoluminescence and other effects by shock wave concentration at the collapse of bubbles, somewhat similar to explosives which are used to pierce the thick walls of tanks or blockhouse cement !!
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Re: Impact on the engine lifespan of water doping?




by moinsdewatt » 19/06/21, 16:30

Indian version of water engine doping.



It does not work. They missed the dosage.
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