System G on a helicopter

[Pegasus]

It is obvious that this device is registered in France and is classified in CDN (its registration proves it FG ...).

In addition this registration ends with REC, a height in our environment: Collection of Confidential Events, emanation from BEA (Bureau Equêtte Accident) which aims to identify (through instructors, pilots, mechanics) weaknesses or failures in the aviation safety system to enable improvement of this system.

If there is such an installation, it is certainly not on this device; a reformed equivalent immobilized on the ground, then maybe there.

No approved workshop, or UEA would take this risk, it would be equivalent to playing Russian roulette with its approval, therefore its job.

As for a licensed pilot, more instructor, who makes first flights (very supervised on the regulatory level), training (again + supervised by the DGAC) that would be like shooting himself in the head.

When you know the sacrifices of many enthusiasts to fly to France, such a risk is not conceivable, Alex can only confirm this point.

That there are currently ideas of realization or realization in progress, certainly, but in classes of apparatus or that is possible on the regulatory level .......
Some devices consume 200 to 500 liters per hour of 100 LL gasoline at meetings, so it is true that if we could save 20% it would represent 70 to 200 euros in savings per hour.

This Quant'Homme communication will unleash our control bodies we don't need that.

[zulu]

I don't think you understood me well, André.

When I write that I can't wait to see photos of the pantoned helicopter, it's because I don't believe this helicopter for a moment. I should have put a smiley. If photos are published - which remains to be seen - they will prove nothing. We may see an engine but not the helicopter which is supposedly around. I remind you that it was I who found the original photo of the Hugues 300c which served to make it appear that he was pantoné.

I know well for the certifications, etc ... of an aircraft. Only amateur construction allows you to experiment, even if it is not simple. See for example the diesel powered plane designed by Serge Pennec (http://gazaile2.free.fr/).

On a certified helicopter such as the Hugues 300c, this is very unlikely. Unless, as you imply, he is old and "sacrificed".

I agree with others that:

- the Pantone device can, at best, slightly improve the efficiency of old inefficient engines, provided that their operation is regular (mowers, tractors, boats ...);

- there are other methods - less artisanal - to improve the efficiency of the engines. Those on which car manufacturers are working, for example.

Having said that, I am just asking to be convinced that the Pantone engine can do better and that is why I would like to meet satisfied farmers.

[Other]

Hello, Zulu
although I think the same for a helicopter.
as I know planes and everything around it ..
just to examine the exhaust manifold, places are very limited to place a panton, make a discreet test, and disassemble the tubing to replace it with the original after the tests, posible, with a bubbler not very realistic!
When the aircraft engine is far from high tech
c, is built as in 1946, it is far from having a good performance, a C65 continetal 65 hp eats close to 20 liters an hour according to the propeller which is above .. (I had a champion Aeronca 65 hp for 12 years the tank is 65 liters and I never managed to do 3 hours of flights) It is relatively easy to improve the performance of these engines just an electronic ignition, rein than having to go to injection mechanically, none still have lambda probes as long as you have to walk to 100ll the probe is stuffed with lead.
For amateur builds there are more games, but if you change the aviation engine for a car engine or other it is necessary that you redo the procedure tested in charge and 50 hours in a radius limited to your point of attachment, on paper it sounds permissive, but by other means it reaches you ...

Andre

[Eppure_si_muove]

And if?

And if the photo (and its unfortunate annotation) were certainly not 'appropriate' (= null in c.), But if the helicopter 'Pantonized' still existed?

What is the approval procedure for a machine that spreads in a neighboring country (for example). Who, how many people ?, sign (s) what? How often? When?
The Police Police?

On another note: anyone who * really * wants to investigate the reality and the 'yield' of the Pantone process (or derivative) - and not of a 'Pantone engine' (you don't touch the engine itself) - can just go to the quanthomme site, even if there were some unconventional ideas.

There he will find several e-mail addresses as well as indications of regions + names or even telephone numbers or even a press report on students from a technical high school who have experienced the trick.

He can also simply send an email to this site which has no financial interest and does not sell anything.

Of course, many prefer to remain anonymous. Given the mocking aggressiveness of some skeptics, the nitpicking and the absurd absurdity of recent legislation, should we be surprised?

Ecologists, know that it is now prohibited to advertise nettle manure. Those who just use boiling water to weed their garden and talk about it on forum discussion, will they fall under the law?

When to trust auto companies to solve pollution and consumption problems, let me laugh.

If the click tells you, I suggest the following link on this subject:
http://www4.autonet.ca/FR/Nouvelles/article.php?file=/Nouvelles/2006/08/01/1713805.html

Summary: General Motors is unhappy with the use of the 'Vortex Valve' by two Detroit dealerships on their 4/4 Hummers.

Best regards.

[Pegasus]

And if?

And if the photo (and its unfortunate annotation) were certainly not 'appropriate' (= null in c.), But if the helicopter 'Pantonized' still existed?

This is a very good question!

What is the approval procedure for a machine that spreads in a neighboring country (for example).

The same as that of the country in which the work is done
That of the country of origin

EASA (new European DGAC) should be able to answer these questions.
Not enough of a hat, now we even have a sombrero.

On the other hand, Auvergne (base of F-GREC, after Bourges) is not quite bordering with a foreign country.

The Police Police?

Compared to the pilot it may only be humor

In fact there are many projects and tests to "pantonize" engines in the aeronautical field, but not on CDN devices, or in professional use, or in a club, or in first flight.

Enjoy the flights everyone.

[zulu]

Pegasus,

I think I understood some Pantoné pro helicopters (or Pantonisé, I don't remember), that the photo was only that of a helicopter of the same type (Hugues 300c). To illustrate what! Just like the video which shows the ground from the supposedly equipped helicopter .... It would be by "abuse" that an arrow indicating the engine would have been added where the cabin heating pipe is located.

And of course, the pantoné Hugues 300c does not fly in France; o))

In the meantime, we still haven't got the promised photos. It seems easier to make an outdoor video than a photo of the machine.

zulu

[Christophe]

If the click tells you, I suggest the following link on this subject:
http://www4.autonet.ca/FR/Nouvelles/article.php?file=/Nouvelles/2006/08/01/1713805.html

Summary: General Motors is unhappy with the use of the 'Vortex Valve' by two Detroit dealerships on their 4/4 Hummers.

Good article, I made it a subject on the forum...

[Christophe]

I agree with others that:
[list] - the Pantone device can, at best, slightly improve the performance of old inefficient engines, provided that their operation is regular (mowers, tractors, boats ...);

Uh, you seem to know yourself in aviation (surely a lot more than me) so I will not teach you anything by telling you that Lycoming engines are (almost) from the R&D of the 40s with very little innovations since (which explains, for example, their low compression ratio, their monstrous consumption, their high weight / power ratio) ...

The potential of the pantone on this type of engine is very real! Especially since these engines are not changed, but rehabilitated after X h ... so it is not impossible to fly in 2006 with an engine whose design dates from the 50s ... André and the light aviation specialists will explain this better than I do!

[Christophe]

I'm afraid the word "ALL" is a bit strong.

I was wrong I wrote LES instead of LES.

For the coordinates I had a few in southern Brittany but it dates from 2002 ... the problem is that seeing 1 tractor does not bring anything ... scientifically speaking I hear ... If you really care contact me in private and we will discuss it again ...

[Christophe]

Estimated performance of a light aviation (poop) engine based on André's testimony.

A C65 continental 65 hp consumes close to 20L / h.
Take 18L / h.

Take an average load (exaggerated but this will improve efficiency) of 90% and consider that the engine has lost 10% of its original power (to be refined). We obtain whose motor output: 65 * 0,9 * 0,9 = 52,65 hp take 53 hp.

The energy contained in the 18L is approximately 180 kwh. (the PCI of the 100LL is the same as that of road fuels? Please confirm / invalidate)

The mechanical energy produced by the 53 hp for 1 hour is 53 hp or 39,22 kwh.

Approximate engine efficiency: 39,22 / 180 = 0,217 or 21,7%.

Which is not so bad, but the average power is probably far from 90%.

So we can estimate the actual yield around 15%.

Less than half of a good diesel not even Hdi in charge ... This is why the Dieselis manages to consume 3,5L per 100 to 200km / h