Water injection for diesel in Bolivia

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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El boliviano
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by El boliviano » 18/05/16, 15:23

Hello!

Sorry for the delay, but some "technical" issues : Shock: : Evil: have come to disrupt the projects ..

So we managed to make a stainless steel reactor in a tube 16x24mm x 260mm long with a rod of 14.5mm.
Both ends are T with stainless steel plugs pierced with a blind hole of 12mm which hold the rod (the ends of the rod are turned to 11.5mm on 20mm)

So the rod can turn on itself. (problem ??)

The reactor was put in place on a vehicle atmo making a hole of 28x 50mm on the exhaust at 350mm of the valves (it can not be closer, it will be in the collector or in the flange).

A basic bubbler made of a transparent "tupperware" type box.
The air intake is a motorcycle air filter connected to a copper pipe of 24mm angled, perforated on the horizontal part.
Capacity of 0.8litre of water.
The suction is done from the top via a watering tube of +/- 18mm inside which arrives at the reactor on a pipe of 16mm on 200mm (not to melt because of the proximity of the exhaust)

The reactor outlet arrives in the inlet in the sheath between the air filter and the valves via a copper tube of 12x14.
over a dozen cm, we put a transparent sheath to see the steam pass and at the same time, it serves as a buffer for vibrations.

There is depression, bubbling bubble (but not much for my taste) : roll:

Well, performance point of view, there is not much difference if there is ... :? according to a driver. (it remains subjective)
Conso point of view, nothing super top either .. we expect the results of the next measures this week, because the records of kms were poorly done in the first three days. but by extrapolating, we would hardly have gained 1litre / 100Km :|

On the other hand, black smoke level, there has been a clear progress. except on a brutal acceleration where there is still a pretty black cloud .. but less and less.

I have read stories of engine "break-in" time to get better performance. Your experiences ??
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by Flytox » 18/05/16, 18:59

El boliviano wrote:Hello!

Sorry for the delay, but some "technical" issues : Shock: : Evil: have come to disrupt the projects ..

So we managed to make a stainless steel reactor in a tube 16x24mm x 260mm long with a rod of 14.5mm.
Both ends are T with stainless steel plugs pierced with a blind hole of 12mm which hold the rod (the ends of the rod are turned to 11.5mm on 20mm)

So the rod can turn on itself. (problem ??)

No, possibly this can vibrate and make noise? ... On the other hand, if the rod remains removable, there is a very interesting test to be made. It is doing the rod comparison as you mounted it and mounting it on electrically insulated "rings". There is a theory of the operation of the reactor which speaks of electrification of the water droplets contained in the steam. Isolating the rod from the ground of the reactor so that it can also charge itself may have effects on the electrification of the steam .... (never had time to do this test : Cheesy: )

The reactor was put in place on a vehicle atmo making a hole of 28x 50mm on the exhaust at 350mm of the valves (it can not be closer, it will be in the collector or in the flange).

Like that you should harvest maximum heat. 8)

A basic bubbler made of a transparent "tupperware" type box.
The air intake is a motorcycle air filter connected to a copper pipe of 24mm angled, perforated on the horizontal part.
Capacity of 0.8litre of water.
The suction is done from the top via a watering tube of +/- 18mm inside which arrives at the reactor on a pipe of 16mm on 200mm (not to melt because of the proximity of the exhaust)

How fast do you consume this water tank?
The horizontal perforated part, you will not have a crobar or a photo?
Your bubbler is plastic? Do you heat the water in one way or another?

The reactor outlet arrives in the inlet in the sheath between the air filter and the valves via a copper tube of 12x14.
about ten cm,

How to open your hose in the sheath (shaving, in the middle, spoon-shaped etc ...)

we put a transparent sheath to see the steam pass and at the same time, it serves as a shock absorber for vibrations.

In principle it is very good, in practice in normal road operation we can not see anything since we are in the cockpit ... But this information is certainly the most judicious. (see a white fog or a stream of droplets depending on the use of the engine etc.)

There is depression, bubbling bubble (but not much for my taste) : roll:

We can simply measure the depression with a U-shaped tube. According to André, it requires a depression corresponding to a column of water about 80 cm in height. Certainly obtainable only with a venturi in the admission. If you do the manipulation, do not loupes and do not swallow all the water from the pipe, like with a throb of anger too much .... : Cheesy:

Well, performance point of view, there is not much difference if there is ... :? according to a driver. (it remains subjective)
Conso point of view, nothing super top either .. we expect the results of the next measures this week, because the records of kms were poorly done in the first three days. but by extrapolating, we would hardly have gained 1litre / 100Km :|

This should come with fine-tuning after some "methodical" testing, especially when you master the quantity / quality of "vapor" you can deliver to the engine.

On the other hand, black smoke level, there has been a clear progress. except on a brutal acceleration where there is still a pretty black cloud .. but less and less.

The engine and the pot do not clean up instantly, they will need a few full ones.

I have read stories of engine "break-in" time to get better performance. Your experiences ??

It's difficult to be categorical but, for my part, my best consumption was not obtained immediately after a modification of my system, let's say that between the time to tame the new functioning of the system after modification and to raise the new consumption in a more or less reliable / representative way it takes 100 to 300 km ?. For example, a polished reactor rod seems to work less well than a little "dirty" (but how fast does it get dirty ?? : Cheesy: )
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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El boliviano
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by El boliviano » 18/05/16, 19:29

Flytox wrote:No, possibly this can vibrate and make noise? ... On the other hand, if the rod remains removable, there is a very interesting test to be made. It is doing the rod comparison as you mounted it and mounting it on electrically insulated "rings". There is a theory of the operation of the reactor which speaks of electrification of the water droplets contained in the steam. Isolating the rod from the ground of the reactor so that it can also charge itself may have effects on the electrification of the steam .... (never had time to do this test : Cheesy: )

No particular noise ...

I'll see what electrical insulator I can use. (the plastic will not hold the shock :D )

Flytox wrote:How fast do you consume this water tank?
The horizontal perforated part, you will not have a crobar or a photo?
Your bubbler is plastic? Do you heat the water in one way or another?

So we added water after 230Km (in town) about 300ml (it was not measured).

There is no water heating at the moment. but here it is not very cool .. (except today, where we have only 18 ° C : roll: )

The horizontal perforated part is pierced with holes of 2mm, (at least 150) on the lower part and on the sides, almost none at the top.
There is 120mm horitontal at +/- 1cm from the bottom of the bubbler.
I will make pictures ..
Flytox wrote:How to open your hose in the sheath (shaving, in the middle, spoon-shaped etc ...)

It is an elbow that happens almost in the middle of the sheath, to make a venturi effect;)

Flytox wrote:
we put a transparent sheath to see the steam pass and at the same time, it serves as a shock absorber for vibrations.

In principle it is very good, in practice in normal road operation we can not see anything since we are in the cockpit ... But this information is certainly the most judicious. (see a white fog or a stream of droplets depending on the use of the engine etc.)

Yes, the goal was not to see during the trip: d but to stop if the steam arrives and passes ..

Flytox wrote:
There is depression, bubbling bubble (but not much for my taste) : roll:

We can simply measure the depression with a U-shaped tube. According to André, it requires a depression corresponding to a column of water about 80 cm in height. Certainly obtainable only with a venturi in the admission. If you do the manipulation, do not loupes and do not swallow all the water from the pipe, like with a throb of anger too much .... : Cheesy:

I'll even do better, I can measure depression with a manometer .. I know where there is one. 8)

Flytox wrote:This should come with fine-tuning after some "methodical" testing, especially when you master the quantity / quality of "vapor" you can deliver to the engine.
The engine and the pot do not clean up instantly, they will need a few full ones.

Yes I can imagine ..
I think we need to work for more water cons .. improving bubbling ..

Flytox wrote:It's difficult to be categorical but, for my part, my best consumption was not obtained immediately after a modification of my system, let's say that between the time to tame the new functioning of the system after modification and to raise the new consumption in a more or less reliable / representative way it takes 100 to 300 km ?. For example, a polished reactor rod seems to work less well than a little "dirty" (but how fast does it get dirty ?? : Cheesy: )


So we will see what happens at the end of the week. The bus is currently running, and the readings are done more accurately (we left on a bus with full, while at the start, we left with a "half" tank and difficult to assess the actual quantity. there was.
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by Flytox » 18/05/16, 20:48

Flytox wrote:How fast do you consume this water tank?
The horizontal perforated part, you will not have a crobar or a photo?
Your bubbler is plastic? Do you heat the water in one way or another?

So we added water after 230Km (in town) about 300ml (it was not measured).

As a starting point, you will be able to consider a conso of 1.5 to 3 liter / 100km

There is no water heating at the moment. but here it is not very cool .. (except today, where we have only 18 ° C : roll: )

AMHA, without heating one evaporates much too little (you would need between 75 and 85 °?).

The horizontal perforated part is pierced with holes of 2mm, (at least 150) on the lower part and on the sides, almost none at the top.
There is 120mm horitontal at +/- 1cm from the bottom of the bubbler.
I will make pictures ..

One hole at the top is too many! It allows, at low aspirations, the horizontal pipe to remain filled with water almost to the same level as the tank. When the engine sucks in "steam", the water obstructs the air intake and the hose may never drain completely from the water. When all the holes in the horizontal pipe are located underneath, when there is sufficient suction, the pipe will “completely” empty water and all the holes can blow out air simultaneously. The operation is much more regular / reproducible.


Flytox wrote:
we put a transparent sheath to see the steam pass and at the same time, it serves as a shock absorber for vibrations.

In principle it is very good, in practice in normal road operation we can not see anything since we are in the cockpit ... But this information is certainly the most judicious. (see a white fog or a stream of droplets depending on the use of the engine etc.)

Yes, the goal was not to see during the trip: d but to stop if the steam arrives and passes ..

When stationary (in neutral on the accelerator?) The temperature of the engine is far below "in continuous operation on the road". So what we see is difficult to interpret. : Cry:

Flytox wrote:
There is depression, bubbling bubble (but not much for my taste) : roll:

We can simply measure the depression with a U-shaped tube. According to André, it requires a depression corresponding to a column of water about 80 cm in height. Certainly obtainable only with a venturi in the admission. If you do the manipulation, do not loupes and do not swallow all the water from the pipe, like with a throb of anger too much .... : Cheesy:

I'll even do better, I can measure depression with a manometer .. I know where there is one. 8)

Excellent! 8)

I think we need to work for more water cons .. improving bubbling ..

You have the means to heat the water of the bubbler (engine cooling circuit, contact on hot part, pot etc ...)?


So we will see what happens at the end of the week. The bus is currently running, and the readings are done more accurately (we left on a bus with full, while at the start, we left with a "half" tank and difficult to assess the actual quantity. there was.

Casually, to make a statement of conso valid / reproducible requires a minimum of care to compare what is comparable, between the conduct of the driver, the course, the load of the vehicle, the season etc .... : Wink:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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El boliviano
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by El boliviano » 18/05/16, 23:20

Flytox wrote:As a starting point, you will be able to consider a conso of 1.5 to 3 liter / 100km

Oue, so we're far away ... so we'll have to review the bubbler, because I think that's where it blocks!

Flytox wrote:AMHA, without heating one evaporates much too little (you would need between 75 and 85 °?).

I'll see what can be done to heat the water ... but 85 ° C, my plastic will not like .. : roll:
I will try to put hot water in the bubbler to see if there is a better : Mrgreen:

Flytox wrote:One hole at the top is too many! It allows, at low aspirations, the horizontal pipe to remain filled with water almost to the same level as the tank. When the engine sucks in "steam", the water obstructs the air intake and the hose may never drain completely from the water. When all the holes in the horizontal pipe are located underneath, when there is sufficient suction, the pipe will “completely” empty water and all the holes can blow out air simultaneously. The operation is much more regular / reproducible.

I will close the highest holes ..
I had thought of using an aquarium diffuser to make the bubbler .. Someone already tried?

Flytox wrote:When stationary (in neutral on the accelerator?) The temperature of the engine is far below "in continuous operation on the road". So what we see is difficult to interpret. : Cry:

When stopped, engine running, of course ..: p When you accelerate, even in neutral, it works .. you can even "load" leaving the handbrake and "force" the engine ... (well, it's not great for the clutch.)

Flytox wrote:You have the means to heat the water of the bubbler (engine cooling circuit, contact on hot part, pot etc ...)?

Yes, I have my idea! 8)
=> Either, with the coolant, I can recover a lot of calories ..
The problem will be to "standardize" for the others.

=> Either by heating the air at the inlet of the bubbler by sucking through a tube surrounded around the exhaust (it will make a few turns of the copper exhaust.)

Flytox wrote:Casually, to make a statement of conso valid / reproducible requires a minimum of care to compare what is comparable, between the conduct of the driver, the course, the load of the vehicle, the season etc .... : Wink:

Yes, I know ... but I'm not everywhere and I have to do only picky people: p
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by Flytox » 19/05/16, 20:01

I'll see what can be done to heat the water ... but 85 ° C, my plastic will not like .. : roll:

Many expansion vessels are plastic, but the walls are relatively thick. Moreover some could be turned into bubbler ..... to study.

I will try to put hot water in the bubbler to see if there is a better : Mrgreen:

Time to test the water will be cold so you will not be able to conclude, you will have a lot of trouble to do without a heating ...

I had thought of using an aquarium diffuser to make the bubbler .. Someone already tried?

Not tried, but it will take you a certain number to get a "sufficient" gas flow. In the chai time not if it holds, at the bottom of the bubbler it crystallizes, deposits, settles and will perhaps block the porosity of the diffuser?
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by El boliviano » 20/05/16, 14:50

Hello!

Tomorrow night we will have the data to do the conso calculation of the week with accurate data (this time) 8)

We have an air compressor on the vehicle (for brakes, doors.)
Would it be wise to send the air into the bubbler, via a valve, to "force" more powerful bubbling? (and therefore no more worries about depression).

Another option is to inject the water into the reactor via a nozzle and an electric pump (like a washer pump, but more reliable and resistant to continuous use, I have it via a fuel pump)
Thus, no bubbler and controlled water flow .. passing water through a copper tube around the exhaust before the arrival in the reactor, we will have the required steam.
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by Flytox » 21/05/16, 11:51

El boliviano wrote:Hello!

Tomorrow night we will have the data to do the conso calculation of the week with accurate data (this time) 8)

Yes! :P

We have an air compressor on the vehicle (for brakes, doors.)
Would it be wise to send the air into the bubbler, via a valve, to "force" more powerful bubbling? (and therefore no more worries about depression).

Good idea to try, it will allow to have airflow in the bubbler even at the lowest engine speeds .... Finally do not pull too much air, it must keep a minimum for the brakes .... : Mrgreen:
In the event that you will have a "significant" air flow available, do not forget that in some explanations of the operation of the reactor, it is "necessary" to be in depression for it to operate. (This will not be compatible with blowing upstream of the reactor?).

Another option is to inject the water into the reactor via a nozzle and an electric pump (like a washer pump, but more reliable and resistant to continuous use, I have it via a fuel pump)

On my assembly, I had installed a small electric compressor that sent me through the same nozzle a mixture of air and water upstream of the reactor.
(Not explored all the possibilities of the trick :| ). If you plan to vary the proportions and quantity of air, water and the temperature at the reactor inlet, the settings possibilities become very large / interesting 8).

Thus, no bubbler and controlled water flow .. passing water through a copper tube around the exhaust before the arrival in the reactor, we will have the required steam.


If you surround the exhaust with a copper tube, the inside diameter should not be too small (not less than 8 or 10 mm). The water and the steam must be able to "separate", and the water can descend by gravity, allowing the steam to escape regularly.
The winding must not especially not be in horizontal position on the exhaust, if it is created a low point with each turn which disturbs much the flow and the heating. The operation becomes particularly unstable (succession of spaces filled with plugs of vapor and packets of liquid water), the steam created locally on a hot point well in contact with the exhaust, violently expels the water contained upstream or downstream . Saccades of violent evictions of fleet sweeps are obtained instead of a continuous jet of steam. (dangerous top for the engine and effective anti for the reactor that drowns immediately).
Fleet pipe winding works better when it is insulated (Ex: I used glass cloth covered with aluminum foil)
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by El boliviano » 07/06/16, 01:30

Hello!

Sorry for the delay, but unexpected events are invited from time to time ...: p

So, we have two full weeks of relatively accurate data to calculate the conso ..

We won 1.9l / 100km of cons.
It's better than nothing .. but we expected more ..
On the other hand, the fumes were drastically reduced and the power (felt) of the engine recovered and started up.

We did not isolate the rod electrically, because we did not find an insulator and most importantly, we have no time to dismantle the reactor.
We started to make a second identical for the fixing and connection part, where we will electrically isolate the rod.
Thus, we can disassemble the old and reassemble the new in a short time.

You can only stop the bus on Sundays because the buses work in half on Sundays.

The bubbler has been modified a little to increase the consumption of water, it is a +/- 1 liter / 100km.

Strange fact found by the chief driver is that it consumes more water when the bubbler is not full than when it is full.
He tested over one day to fill it 4 times instead of 2 (the bus is +/- 230km / day) and that day, he returned with the empty bubbler having consumed the 80cl of the start plus a bottle of 2l d 'water, or 2.8l for 230km => 1.2l / 100km.
So 20% more than when we fill it 2x (it goes full (0.8 liter), to 7H, it fills 11H again with 0.8 liter or less and back to 15h and returns to 19 or 20h, often empty .. )

I have to find a way to keep the bubbler filled to a "mini" level constantly by increasing its capacity, but where it is placed, it is not easy because there is little space and via a system of communicating vessel, they must be at the same level and pass two tubes.
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Re: Water injection for Diesel in Bolivia




by Flytox » 07/06/16, 23:38

El boliviano wrote:So, we have two full weeks of relatively accurate data to calculate the conso ..

We won 1.9l / 100km of cons.
It's better than nothing .. but we expected more ..
On the other hand, the fumes were drastically reduced and the power (felt) of the engine recovered and started up.

It's a good start 8)

We did not isolate the rod electrically, because we did not find an insulator and most importantly, we have no time to dismantle the reactor.
We started to make a second identical for the fixing and connection part, where we will electrically isolate the rod.
Thus, we can disassemble the old and reassemble the new in a short time.

What's the mouth of the rod with the km?

The bubbler has been modified a little to increase the consumption of water, it is a +/- 1 liter / 100km.

Strange fact found by the chief driver is that it consumes more water when the bubbler is not full than when it is full.
He tested over one day to fill it 4 times instead of 2 (the bus is +/- 230km / day) and that day, he returned with the empty bubbler having consumed the 80cl of the start plus a bottle of 2l d 'water, or 2.8l for 230km => 1.2l / 100km.
So 20% more than when we fill it 2x (it goes full (0.8 liter), to 7H, it fills 11H again with 0.8 liter or less and back to 15h and returns to 19 or 20h, often empty .. )

It seems to me that André spoke about this several times, that it worked better with little water at the bottom of the bubbler. Higher water temperature in the bubbler? and / or greater volume above the water giving "better" steam? If you could measure the temperature of the fleet in both cases, we could move forward a bit !?

I have to find a way to keep the bubbler filled to a "mini" level constantly by increasing its capacity, but where it is placed, it is not easy because there is little space and via a system of communicating vessel, they must be at the same level and pass two tubes.

In one of my "projects" not yet realized, there is a system with a very small 12 v pump (which supports hot water) which very slowly fills the bubbler from below. In the bubbler, there is an overflow which allows: a constant level of float and water to return to a 5 liter tank below. The pump sucks into this reservoir and spits into a copper pipe heated by the Coolant. In the end, it spits water at around 85 ° C into the bubbler. You need a small filter on this circuit, otherwise it will not work for long (concretions / algae / bacteria etc ... : Mrgreen: )
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

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