The ideal bubbler?

[Rantamplan]

Hi everybody,
My idea of ​​the ideal bulker.
It is the bulger which makes it possible to enrich and volatilize the liquid.

In bubbling, what is important is the bubble !!

But in the bubble what is important is the exchange surface with the liquid. So for a volume of air X creating bubbling, it is better to have a lot of small bubbles than a large bubble. But many small bubbles tend to group together to form large bubbles. And yes the bubble and vicious! and windowed!
But we're not going to let go of this bubble like that.
Never mind, we will make him repeat the journey.

In conclusion:
If a passage of gas is not enough to properly charge the air with volatilizing liquid, it should be ironed.
either install a mini pump which sucks the gas charged with volatilized liquid to reinject it in the lower part of the bubbler. Of course, you will have to be careful not to put the reactor inlet under vacuum.
In addition, with this solution, it is possible to have high bulgers and therefore the path of the bubble in the liquor is longer and this makes it possible to increase the contact between gas and liquid which is the cause of volatilization.

attached diagram

Otherwise it would not be bad to isolate the bubbler because as André says, what is not lost is not lost !!

: blink:: blink:

To meditate and criticize

Rantanplan

[Other]

Hello Rantamplan,
it's good to have ideas, good ideas the hardest to find are the ones that are simple.
the art of creation is to do complicated things in a simple way
As for the bubbler, the air which passes into the water once saturated with humidity
she is no longer able to take water,
it's true what you say full of small bubbles is better, I try the aquarium stones accesoirr that we find in aquarium sellers
this is full of small bubbles, the other method is full of small short tubes of 3,2mm not very long spaced in the bottom of the tank it is full of bubbles, if the path is not long it will not stick not.
the problem is that it takes between 150 to 200mm of level in the bubble to have the right vacuum inlet bubbler, some say false it works in pressure, I did not have a good result in pressure in front of the reactor, even with exhaust bubbling.
the other method which I did not try that could be to suck the air through wicks of tows which soaks in hot water, one would approach aquaculture, Certain humidifier with drum works in this principle, it is among the humidifiers that we must look.
Steam with warm water.
Andre

[Cuicui]

Hi André, wonderful experimenter!
If I understood correctly, we can conclude that if we inject too much water vapor into the engine, the efficiency drops and the engine starts smoking again. A yield gain of 60% is only possible on an old, completely fouled engine that has lost half of its initial power, and which thanks to the Pantone regains its original performance. On a new engine, the efficiency can increase by around 20%, in addition to cleaning it up. I find it great.

[Rantamplan]

Hello
I am not an expert but I think that what must be sent in the reactor is saturated gas and especially not steam because steam is generally saturated gas and water droplets and therefore fluid .
The reactor is made to refine a gas and not a fluid. therefore the energy required is too great and the efficiency of the reactor drops especially if the length of the reactor core has been reduced to the maximum and if the exhaust air is a little just for heating.
The reactor is designed to change from gaseous to plasma state.
If it has to make first gas gas and then gas plasma, it requires a lot of energy.
In addition, since the gas is already saturated, it is already heavily loaded with water molecules.

I think that in the middle the reactor can treat a saturated gas.

André,
When I proposed to recirculate the air in the bubbler is that I thought it was not necessarily obvious to manage to saturate the air with fuel. By what if it's so easy why are you trying to make small bubbles and heat the fluid ??


Rantanplan

[Other]

Hello rantamplam
it's far from being easy because i don't yet understand what is going on in the reactor, i just do tests and observations my way of seeing evolves according to these results, what i know, send steam at more than 100 c in the reactor it does not work, so you need steam below 100 it is invisible steam or microdrops? I do not know ? I think that's it. At the outlet of the reactor it can be very hot with little water or medium hot with more water, so far what works best is moderately water not very hot. it will take many more tests to find the kind of temperature and vapor that gives the best performance. I've been on these tests for months and it's not going very fast, there are few handymen who tell us about the steam temperature test, they pump through the bubbler and hello the visit, the engine drinks what the reactor given. When is it good? when it's very good? when it is excellent ??? not important . We will not advance like that ... Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one to have thermocouples on the outlet of the reactor ...
Andre

[phil 14]

Hello André
I would like to plan to install a thermocouple at the outlet of my reactor, but you would have to explain to me what it looks like, how it works and where to get one.
As I already told you, I keep some of your posts on the operation and improvements of water doping for soon 3 months. Would you agree that i put them on the forum for newcomers, this would save you from having to repeat the same thing several times.
A+
PHILL 14

[Rantamplan]

Hello André,
I think that to understand it is necessary to approach the air saturation curves and the boiling phenomenon. But 100 ° C under 1 bar is the boiling temperature of water !!
. The saturation capacity (air absorption capacity varies depending on the temperature and pressure).
Water vapor is gas saturated with water molecules plus microdroplets.
Imagine if the gaseous part (air) is still heated its absorption capacity will increase. So in this case you will be able to absorb the microdroplets by the air.
If you are already at 100 ° C the air is already completely saturated so you send water to the reactor. And the reactor can no longer or badly create the transformation from gaseous to plasma state.

I do my research (theoretical in the field of thermodynamics applied to steam engines) and I confirm to you as soon as I can.

In any case, I am convinced that no fluid state should be sent to the reactor.
If the temperature of the exhaust gases increases around 180 ° C and we want to use this energy to increase the amount of water treated by the reactor, I think it is better to think of increasing the flow of saturated gas and for this we can consider modifying (controlling) the length of the reactor core as I proposed on one of my diagrams or adding an additional reactor to the engine in question

For your thermocouples, I think you have everything right because the temperature is an essential parameter in the phenomena that we are trying to understand.

: blink:: blink:

Rantanplan

[Rantamplan]

André,
I think that if you want to analyze and understand what is going on you have to assimilate the notions of change of state and the notion of enthalpy.

Below is a link to an engineering school course which is not bad

<a href='http://www.cyber.uhp-nancy.fr/demos/CH-ENER/cha_2/cours_2_8.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cyber.uhp-nancy.fr/demos/CH-ENE.../cours_2_8.html</a>

Mollier's curves are missing

http://www.chez.com/hvac/mollier/mollier.htm


If it seems barbaric all this can be explained simply (it's like when you talk to a notary, sometimes you need a translator and it's stupid like the moon what he tells you)


When you increase the temperature of the water vapor above 100 ° C past the critical point of the Mollier diagram and your wet vapor becomes Hot GAS. And apparently he doesn't like hot gas the Pentone !!

The critical point:
The specific heat of vaporization r decreases at increasing pressure (and increasing temperature) to disappear completely in a determined state. This point, where there is no longer any difference between the boiling liquid and the saturated vapor, is called the critical point. It separates the boiling line from the saturated steam line. Above the critical point there is no longer any difference between liquid and vapor. The substance was in a critical state.

Apriori he doesn't like the Pentone when the specific heat of vaporization disappears !!

To dig??

A ++

: blink:: blink:

Rantanplan

[krissg29]

In fact it is necessary to find the point of equilibrium (or better efficiency) between pressure and temperature. That's it?

Have you ever done pressure measurements André? in addition to your temperature measurements.
Would you have noticed something according to the pressure at the inlet of the reactor (and in the bubbler)?

If I don't get it wrong, the water boils at less than 100 ° C if the pressure is less than 1 bar absolute.
It may not be the bubbles that "entrain" the water in the air, but perhaps only the depression and the temperature that boil it.

[Other]

Hello Kriss
I have not done a lot of tests with bubbler on the car just 2 tries just for measurements of temperature consumption and depression.
As I work with a water carburetor and I want to have the same parameters as a bubbler or better, I weld a small tube under the carburetor to measure the depression with a plastic tube and a column of colored water j , currently operates with a vacuum before the reactor more than 200 mm of water at 2800rpm to 3000rpm, if I want more I reduce the nozzle of the carburetor or I magnify it to have less.
The vacuum measured at the reactor outlet, that which comes from the venturi that I placed in front of the turbo is 700 mm and more at 3000rpm, recently I gained it by enlarging the reactor outlet tube. For depressions, I will stay on these values ​​and focus on the reactor outlet temperature and therefore the flow rate of the carburetor water. as I do a lot of short trips the results are long and unreliable.
I did a little test with a little alcohol in the water, I prepare myself for the night jellies it is coming here, the diesel looks like well loved the baptized water, I will carefully increase the dose. (although in November this tank will winter under a bach, like the bears) I would continue the tests on the Chevrolet.
Andre