Tractors doped water: a ok, ok and not a breakage

[frederic fabre]

Good evening, I mounted two pantonned engines, the first to try 3 months ago on a 188 massey 70hp engine with a 21/16 outer tube reactor and a 14mm rod, this one "isolated" from the outer tube by a brass centering and bubbler heated by the exhaust gases with a temperature control thermometer, it works well and better and better (no black smoke, barely brown engine oil, fuel economy of 30% and gain in power)
On a 2nd renault 120hp tractor, I put 2 reactors on the same principle as previously with a separate bubbler heated by the coolant in slight contact with the exhaust t ° 65 ° C verdict a slight better in terms of smoke at exhaust but it consumes as much and no additional power, why? In addition, in 2005, I had already mounted a pantone quickly made with 7 reactors, it was working on fire, I had removed it because the bubbler was heated by the exhaust and the water boiled verdict with dead valves and 1 shirt out of 6 split + water in oil, at the time I had everything removed and thrown away. now I pay attention to the temperature of the bubbler. If you have a solution for the assembly think about telling it to me, I tried to do it at best

[Other]

Hello

For a long time I also thought that water should not boil
but I revisited myself with experience.

in a tight bubbler a great boiling which exceeds the suction capacity of the engine means that it spits out drops of water accompanied by steam which drowns the reactor and introduce liquid into an engine, the risk is great if these drops of water are projected onto hot parts of the engine, notably the exhaust valve, this does not like thermal shock.

Anyway the water in a bubbler cannot exceed 100c
On my assembly (auto gasoline) that sometimes boils in the bubbler it is heating exhaust. to avoid problems it takes a large vertical bubbler with a well-partitioned steam outlet even with a fine filter at the top
I prefer the heating by exhaust than by liquid which I find too limited, in your case 65 c it is insufficient that contributes to a depolution, but very little gain.
the air which crosses the water and the evaporation in the bubbler lowers the temperature it takes a lot of heat for a bubbler

A bubbler of great size and long to warm up, but fairly stable when driving, what I do at the start I put little water and once the journey go forward I top up the level ..
A bubbler it is preferable to build it to have a good heating capacity, even if it means controlling its temperature by cooling the bubbler (large size) or adding water.

If you have feedback on a multireactor assembly it would be interesting to share it to make the comparison with a monoreactor.

I made a big rod reactor 19 mm rather than 2 of 12mm

Andre

[Christophe]

Thank you for these testimonies it is to my knowledge the 1st which says that there was damage on a water doping. Do you have pictures of this damage?

For the non results on your 2nd tractor can you give us?

1) the powers of the 2 tractors
2) the average hourly consumption before and after assembly?

With this we will see easily if it is the lack of charge ...

[frederic fabre]

I send you the photo of the 188 pantoné with a reactor this weekend jm attack to do the same assembly on another 188 (I have two with the same bubbler all the same but with 4 reactors so we can see the difference I will put the same harnessed machine for making comparisons
I also send you the photos of the existing assembly of the pantone on the renault without the modifications (I have not yet isolated the bubbler for it to heat up)

[Other]

Hello

The assembly on the red tractor is more rational compact bubbler heated with the exhaust, nice short exit to enter the engine without elbow.
The bubbler is high if the reactor is long the rod must be as long 30cm? 20 to 25 cm suffices the least restriction, especially if the air gap is 1mm
Mounting on the yellow tractor, the heating method seems to be done only from the bottom? with engine water, the outlet pipe from the bubbler to the reactor seems to me a long risk of condensation, probably lack of heat and low water consumption, depending on the intake vacuum, this assembly needs modifications to be functional.

Message will follow

Andre

[frederic fabre]

I show you the future elelents of the future assembly which will be mounted on a 188 massey
Assembly characteristics:
-2 reactors (I can't put 4 lack of space in the exhaust pipe)
-stem length 27 cm manetically isolated
- the rods support (see photos) on a brass rod, the rods of diameter 14 are not fixed they center themselves
-the reactors are in tube 21/16 and placed vertically in the exhaust
Photos

If there is a problem tell me before tomorrow I attack the welding

[Other]

Hello

The preferable rod smaller than 30cm 25 would be better
Vertical it is necessary to provide a retainer of the rod which will fail to plug the hole at the bottom therefore a spacer or a fixing whatever it becomes musical that vibrates it in the reactor and eventually wear out, the engine downstream filings.
Attention all the parts added in the reactor must be well welded and solid, the engine can swallow pieces


Andre

[frederic fabre]

I did well to wait for your answer for the welds I will fix the rod at least I am sure it will not move. I hadn't answered you regarding the reactor outlet temperature on the faulty assembly of the renault tractor (yellow) in fact I have absolutely no idea. I have isolated the bubbler and the exhaust of the renault tractor, I will see what it looks like when I use it (no further).
Question: On a tractor the breather of the engine "pisses" on the ground, if I connect it to the inlet of the aspiration of the bubbler it sucks or it is better?
In my opinion, there are only advantages:
-I suck filtered air
-j recycles the outlet gases
-I take hot gas with a T ° controlled almost constant

[Other]

Hello

Question: On a tractor the breather of the engine "pisses" on the ground, if I connect it to the inlet of the aspiration of the bubbler it sucks or it is better?
In my opinion, there are only advantages:
-I suck filtered air
-j recycles the outlet gases
-I take hot gas with a T ° controlled almost constant

What comes out through the breather

Water vapor
Combustion gas that has passed through the segments
Diesel that has crossed the segments (notably running under load and starting)
Oil vapor and drops of liquid oils, depending on the age of the engine.

Ideally for modern and healthy engines, the crankcase is ventilated, these gases are returned to the intake,
But on industrial engines and on airplanes we avoid this for safety reasons.

On a diesel, one should not simply send the pipe of the breather dircetement in the admission, it is absolutely necessary to pass these gases in an oil separator, kind of small box with baffles or cyclone, or metal filter which does not let pass the drops of but only the gaseous part, which the engine can swallow well
an engine which has overheated that the segmentation is doubtful (icing, wear) the risk is great so that a diesel downstream the vapors of hot oils from the engine, is carried away until its destruction. (I saw connecting rods cross the engine block)

I work for a while to pass these vapors to the reactor processes them very well, when it is hot, these vapors should not be cooled before going to the reactor,
the only drawback that I noticed, After a long hot oil pipe if you stop the engine for 15 minutes the reactor cools down, the oil stays hot when restarting the oil vapor fouls the reactor and then the oil cooked on the rod, it makes a black carbon diffcile eliminated only by disassembly.

So if you opt for this system, you should not pass these vapors into the bubbler water.
These vapors should not be sent to a cold or not hot enough reactor.
It is absolutely necessary to make an oil separator, if only to reduce the consumption of engine oil, and avoid sending large liquid drops into the reactor.

Yep it would be nice to do without the bubbler and use the crankcase like a big bubbler
A guy from forum MMM uses this principle.

Andre

[frederic fabre]

Tonight I improved the bubbler of my renault tractor I put an air diffuser in the bubbler with holes of diameter 6. Complete the insulation of the bubbler.
My heavyweight mechanic friend came and advised me not to take the gas from the bubbler, we will have a maximum gas temperature of 50 to 60 ° C and risks for the engine spinnaker joints if we are not in phase with aspiration of the pantone at all regimes there are risks of overpressure or too great depression in addition to the risks of oil explained by andre previously, so I will not take any risk