Testing pantone tractors spad, water doping?

[bolt]

Hello André

I thought, for the changing performance due to the cold of winter and driving for road vehicles, city, downhill etc. for which you said to lack heat (engine load)

If it's really a lack of heat I may have a solution:
IDEA
As the engine is fully loaded everything is fine so you should not change anything at this time.

When the engine is relieved: problem:
on a diesel intake always swallows full pot of fresh air and the output temperature ech. lower, it decreases all the stronger because of the excess of air.

The remedy is simple:

Swallow hot air at this time,
Note that at this time, the expansion of the intake air will cause depletion of air mass (oxygen), but in low load no importance, then there is enough oxygen to completely burn the fuel

Similarly at zero load, sucking hot air (very hot) has no problem (for example in a big downhill engine brake, except perhaps the less effective engine brake)

The idea: put a heat exchanger that takes the exit of the exhaust gases after they have passed into the reactor (the latter must recover the maximum heat so it is first)

and pass all the admission in this exchanger (against flow if you want)

Problem: and for the full charge?

When diverting the fresh air to the heat exchanger, it is necessary to return the heated air to it and to install here a sort of pallet to make three-way valve

This pallet will then have to be ordered by ????

The accelerator pedal (a spring on the pallet and pulling a cable to the pedal)

Where (on a line pump), a rack position sensor (displacement proportional to the load) to transmit in the correct position to the flap
(there it complicates a little to tinker at home)
and often it's rotating pumps on cars

Or a probe type lambda but adapted to the concentration of pollution at the exhaust outlet and controlled to control the valve, to avoid lack of oxygen to the engine
We can also add a temperature sensor and control and enslave the maximum temperature admitted to the reactor at the same time, why not? Totof thought that the reactor could be too hot, but hey, it was just him:?:

To start a simple choke lever with its cable should be enough

And here we have reinvented the pantone
Chambrin pantone mix, he was doing everything well all the time in the heat exchanger, apart from the small hole of fresh air that entered the heart of his system

Note that my idea piloted at best could regulate the temperature of the reactor so that it remains in its best performance and in return to full load, instantly enjoy the power without having to wait for the reactor "hangs up"

If it is interesting as a system, the webmaster could review the copy of his patent and include an optimum regulation for the flapper

As for my questions about the tests:
I personally try the consumption on a G system:

The farmer told me to consume 40% less
I put an instant consumption reading device on his tractor and there valve closed or open, without load, at different speed: strictly no difference

With load at 80% (at work), difficult to have a really uniform load: result really disappointing 40% became 5% in favor of the pantone (with the interpretation being the most favorable)

He asserted, he believed, he is no longer on ???
It was 4 ° C during the test cà at least it is on
IS this the cause

Happy reading to everyone

bolt

[Other]

Hello, bolt
I would like to have an instrumrnt to measure the instantaneous consumption on a diesel like the tractors, a pump bosch
there is a come and go, we do not find that here, yet I searched? Can you tell us where you found it? I'm interested..
Now you should know that growers do not measure consumptions like experimental motor laboratory technicians.
Their method and simpler it make work their tractor for several days and according to the size of the ground to plow they make the comparison with and without panton .. over a long period that applanie the errors ... and if I suppose that they meet the (same) problems that one has on the cars is to say that the reactor works in a sporadic way, on a long march they arrive at results.
As for the heat the problem is set, I draw my air under the hood back of the radiator is like in May
from 15c to 22c ..Rest that performance is less than in summer
other factors must be taken into account snow-covered road tires harder, heating, defrost, electric ect ..
I will not lose my comfort to do this verrifiacation ..
For the heating of the vacuum engines, it is very long since the cars especially the big V8 have an automatic valve directly at the exit of the exhaust manifolds, when the exhaust refriodis there is a bimetallic spiral which partially closes the exhaust, it's simple and efficient, but it went bad after a few years the cast iron valve remains stuck.
If you want your reactor to be heated using the same principle, a valve is installed after the reactor, which opens with the pressure of the exhaust, you have heat at low speed.

Andre

[lau]

I do not think a reactor too hot is a disadvantage, on the contrary, if it could go up to 1000 ° we would really change the driving.
For the performance of the tractor pantone, the experts are well aware that the materials also have a key role. it is useless to have at all costs a superb bubbler all stainless steel and welded to the Tig.
Word of mouth we know people realizing fuel savings of the order of 60% with modified spad steel sheet and rust hard inside.
on my proto we voluntarily put an iron gate so that it rust, the water is red after a few minutes, we can see it through the porthole on the bubbler.
The experience would be to see someone realizing big savings on his tractor with an iron spad and replace it with stainless steel, I think we could have surprises.

[Other]

Hello Lau
Well come, among those who do tests, you will see the time and the energy to devote to each test is slightly modified .. build and install a panton is small beer, compare tests,
But once you stop a result, keep this base
and modify slightly one thing at a time, and be patient,
The amount of water is not a guarantee of success ... Go in the direction less water posible

The worst mistake that can be made is to have preconceived ideas
on the operation of the reactor. Note all improvements, and analyze this in an open way. it is a montage so rustic, that its function must also be something simple ..

My main job and trying to make a consistent economy on small runs, is the use 90% that I made with my vehicles.

Andre

[bolt]

Hello André

The consumption measuring apparatus originates from:
the Ets J. of Vienna
According to a press article that dates from 1983, it cost 4500 Fr HT (now ????)
It has a sort of tank resembling a filter, but it is a system that degasses the fuel before measuring it through a mini oval gear motor with a displacement of 1 cm3

on one of the gears there is a magnet that turns in front of a reed that emits a pulse / turn to another electronic box that then displays the instantaneous flow

this box also includes a stopwatch that can be reset or just pause
in addition there is a totalizer which accumulates the consumed literage and which counts only when the crono rotates

for example (with the instantaneous reading) with your car, you roll at a regular pace at a time that you know that the pantone walks you read the conso, then (assuming you are on a flat road) you cut the pantone, you keep exactly the speed that you had before (even if you have to press a little more on the accelerator to compensate for the drop in power) then you can see the difference of conso for the same load
But it's easier with a tractor at work in a long field
and even more spectacular when he's on a test bench, what you can not do with a car

the other solution: it is to cumulate with the crono
For example when you arrive at a good speed you stabilize at a speed reference and you start the crono
after a while, no matter how much, you stop it, you note the values
you are at zero, and you start again (at exactly the same reference speed, you can cut the pantone

After; volume divided by time in seconds x 3600 = consumed by the hour in each test and compares

Or you simply clock a ride with or without pantone as you already do

a plus bolt

[lau]

yeah ... have a thermometer T ° it can also be used to measure gases

[bolt]

Hello

I installed a thermocouple right out of the reactor on a van:
the temperature rose to 360 ° C, on ordinary road, it varied from 160 to 360 depending on the load.

Then I pushed hard on highway and there it climbed up to 494 ° C

The tip of the thermocouple may be touching the hot wall of the reactor where the exhaust is not far

I tried at 15 cm farther than the reactor (still in the GEET gas tube) and there on normal road following the load (once hot): it ranged from 173 ° C to 264 ° C

Are there any comments?

bolt

[Other]

Hello Bolt
the instrument that you speak is the old mechanical model small turbine that turns with the flow, that it is, for the small flows the precison is less. To have a good reading it is necessary to make a regular flow, this n I do not like sudden cuts and variations, it's tolerable anyway.
Now with the new gasoline or diesel vehicles
There is a fairly large circulation of fuel, so the instrument must take into account the difference between the fuel that goes into the pump and the one that goes back to the tank.
Those who roll in oil fried potato as my boy know
so to heat the oil in an exchanger he installs a small valve calibrated on the filter a (fuel) the return is decreased, a small proportion of oil returns to the tank.
Without this system as soon as the temperature drops to -10 and more it is no longer possible to warm up such a mass of oil,
(In fact we just need to heat the oil that the engine consumes) -20 it transfers the oil barrels with a shovel.
The only way is to roll 100% oil here it is a small valve with 2 reservoirs a small for diesel and big for oil.
and again it takes a pump to pump the margarine of resevoir ..
I move away from the subject, I should have posted elsewhere ...

To verify the consomation I put a potentiometer on the accelerator of 300TD, but it is very approximate as reference, not precise enough to make instantaneous measurements
in the pump there are other parameters connected to the turbo and the centrifugal regulator which distort this data.

Andre

[lau]

yes bolt there are comments: it's crazy the T ° you reach! how much savings on your van with how much water is absorbed?

[bolt]

No André

it is not a turbine on which a jet arrives (kind of flowmeter at Conrad (p 502 catalog 2006))

read what I wrote above, it's like a gear pump, it's volumetric, the manufacturer gives it for a precision of 1%

and on the direct reading box we read 1 / 10 of liter / hour
if you want I can make you see with the notice and a sketch:

Here!

yes bolt there are comments: it's crazy the T ° you reach! how much savings on your van with how much water is absorbed?

for now: that slab!

water consumption: 3 to 5 L / 100, maybe more
bubbler heated by the exhaust
and the stems have all blued

bolt