Water doping on Renault Trafic 2.5l SOFIM

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Paul
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Water doping on Renault Trafic 2.5l SOFIM




by Paul » 05/07/11, 12:34

Hello everyone,
I am in Ariège, and has just carried out a doping with water on my traffic (sofim engine).
Having found on the net only info + or- precise, sometimes even contradicting myself, I made this montage a little to my taste.

My assembly consists of a stainless steel tube 304 de1 / 2 inch in diameter and 35cm, and a rod of the same stainless steel of 14mm in diameter and 25cm.
the reactor is fed by an old moped carbide which "carbides" in a flattened copper tube and wound around the muffler, to evaporate the water before it arrives at the reactor. It is I believe + or- the principle of the GVI of Michel but without piercing the pot.
I just mounted it after the experiment with a bubbler, too ineffective.
But maybe it is simply the length of the rod that is not suitable, 30cm instead of the 10 / 15cm that André recommends in these explanations, which I saw a short time ago?
That said, I have not really tested this new assembly, because I drive as little as possible, best proven way to save fuel, and what to do 200 terminal just to see if it works does not seem very economical.
Anyway, I would have liked to have some advice for a "perfect" realization.
A yes, namely that I had previously asked a WITH aluminum, which as I read could affect the efficiency of the pantone. javascript: emoticon (': cry:')

good here, in fact super this site, very complete, bravo christophe!

Pablo, new pantonist.
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Re: Doping in water on Renault Trafic 2.5l sofim




by Flytox » 05/07/11, 19:31

Hello pablo, welcome to the Club

pablo wrote:Hello everyone,
I am in Ariège, and has just carried out a doping with water on my traffic (sofim engine).
Having found on the net only info + or- precise, sometimes even contradicting myself, I made this montage a little to my taste.

New sauces always provide interesting information to exploit.

My assembly consists of a stainless steel tube 304 de1 / 2 inch in diameter and 35cm, and a rod of the same stainless steel of 14mm in diameter and 25cm.


If you are talking about the reactor, is it not rather an 1 / 2 inch rod and a 14 mm tube? if i followed well? : Mrgreen: If this is the case the clearance is relatively small 0.65 mm at the radius and with 25 cm long, the pressure drop may be a little high.

the reactor is fed by an old moped carbide which "carbides" in a flattened copper tube and wound around the muffler, to evaporate the water before it arrives at the reactor. It is I believe + or- the principle of the GVI of Michel but without piercing the pot.


For moped carburetor, this can work perfectly (butterfly almost closed) but, you risk having corrosion problems: water + zamac + brass this creates a battery which will corrode these metals and produce quickly (week) a kind of white porridge which floats in the fuel tank and will end up blocking the needle and other jets. : Cry:

For copper tube flattened and coiled around the pot, this creates very unstable operation if the tube is in a horizontal position and with an inside diameter <6mm. The water / vapor / air mixture progresses in the turns in unpredictable jerks and with postillion forces. (it does anything!)
In addition, the copper tube / exhaust contact is never very good and relates to a generator (more or less). The heat exchange remains much lower than a real GVI like Camel1, you will have a lot of difficulty producing all the necessary steam and of the necessary "quality".

But maybe it is simply the length of the rod that is not suitable, 30cm instead of the 10 / 15cm that André recommends in these explanations, which I saw a short time ago?


If you want it to work, listen André !!!! It will go much faster to say what he did not try. : Mrgreen:

That said, I have not really tested this new assembly, because I drive as little as possible, best proven way to save fuel, and what to do 200 terminal just to see if it works does not seem very economical.
Anyway, I would have liked to have some advice for a "perfect" realization.


You are in the right place! : Mrgreen:

A yes, namely that I had previously asked a WITH aluminum, which as I read could affect the efficiency of the pantone. javascript: emoticon (': cry:')


For me, there is no contraindication, if you raise a better, you keep, and it's easy to remove to retry to see compatibility with the Gillier Pantone.

Well, now you can put some photos and explanations of your editing ... : Mrgreen:
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reponce




by Paul » 06/07/11, 20:46

hello Flytox,
er, the stainless steel tube of my reactor does well 1 / 2 inch in diameter, 21.3mm ext and 17 and some inside, and the rod 14mm, which gives me a game of about 1.5mm.

For the fuel, I deleted the bushel :|
The tube wrapped around the pot was 16mm in diameter, flattened for better thermal exchange (more contact surface), and made a little more than one turn of the pot.
Almost all the air sucked in by the reactor passes through my fuel.

1er journey made:

1 liter consumption for 1 hour of journey, and I have the impression that it works better than with the bubbler.

Okay, otherwise we will see in a week if there is porridge in my carb, and I will test with a shorter rod.
Instaling the famous GVI of camel1 annoys me because I don't have a brazing station (oxyacethilene) to weld it to my pot.

For the photos and explanation, its coming.
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Re: ANSWER




by Flytox » 06/07/11, 21:34

pablo wrote: er, the stainless steel tube of my reactor does well 1 / 2 inch in diameter, 21.3mm ext and 17 and some inside, and the rod 14mm, which gives me a game of about 1.5mm ..


Not quite what you're talking about, an 1 / 2 inch is 25.4 mm / 2 = 12.7 mm .....: Cry:


Instaling the famous GVI of camel1 annoys me because I don't have a brazing station (oxyacethilene) to weld it to my pot.


Without welding equipment, it is more difficult to achieve a good result, usually it is necessary to modify several times before finding something that works well.

pablo wrote:For the photos and explanation, its coming.

Yes !!!!

To monitor the operation of your assembly, it would be good if you could measure the temperature between the outlet of your reactor and the connection on the inlet, this gives the minimum information, from when the "steam" arrives / speed or load engine, minimum and maximum temperatures while cruising, etc.
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Re: Doping in water on Renault Trafic 2.5l sofim




by Other » 07/07/11, 05:54

pablo wrote:Hello everyone,
My assembly consists of a stainless steel tube 304 de1 / 2 inch in diameter and 35cm, and a rod of the same stainless steel of 14mm in diameter and 25cm.
.


For Renault sofim 2,5 l a foreigner who lives on the other side of the Atlantic does not know if it is a turbo diesel or petrol engine?
If I understand it is a stainless steel tube 1 / 2 PIPE with thin walls, and a stainless steel rod of diameter 14 mm length 25cm (for the reactor it is in the standards a set of 1mm to 1,5mm a length of 18 cm or 25 cm there is very little difference on the operation.

the reactor is fed by an old moped carbide which "carbides" in a flattened copper tube and wound around the muffler, to evaporate the water before it arrives at the reactor. It is I believe + or- the principle of the GVI of Michel but without piercing the pot.

Not sure if the flat tube is a good idea difficult to control the steam plugs.
If it is a petrol engine? it can work with a mini carburetor, but it requires a lot of maintenance, filtering the water, periodic cleaning and it is clearly less efficient than a bubbler.

I just mounted it after the experiment with a bubbler, too ineffective.


Amazing the bubbler it is simple and functional low maintenance not difficult to put into operation, even with dirty ditch water

But maybe it is simply the length of the rod that is not suitable, 30cm instead of the 10 / 15cm that André recommends in these explanations, which I saw a short time ago?

Unlikely that your problem is related to the reactor.
I'm looking for the inlet side of the reactor and why is your bubbler not working?

That said, I have not really tested this new assembly, because I drive as little as possible, best proven way to save fuel, and what to do 200 terminal just to see if it works does not seem very economical.


the experiment is far from being ecological and it requires a lot of fuel, I experiment with fried potato oil and I test with diesel (a new system you have to pass two fuel tanks to measure are efficiency) must have had heat and a thin layer of scale in the ducts and reactor. So at first not too quickly draw conclusions and change everything ..

Anyway, I would have liked to have some advice for a "perfect" realization.

Making it perfect is difficult, already making it repetitively functional, it's progress, so learn about it and look at those who have systems that work and take models, make improvements.

Andre
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by Macro » 07/07/11, 09:09

FYI the renault traffic 2.5 sofim is an atmospheric indirect injection diesel engine.
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by Paul » 07/07/11, 20:06

For Renault sofim 2,5 l a foreigner who lives on the other side of the Atlantic does not know if it is a turbo diesel or petrol engine?

yes, sorry, it's a diesel, as Macro says

length of 18 cm or 25 cm there is very little difference in operation.

Ok, but is it better long or short for better performance? there is still a difference since you (André) recommend only 15 or 10 cm for doping with water (half the length of my rod)?

why is your bubbler not working?

It is true that it is weird, but I find that it "brakes" the engine, as if it was having trouble bubbling. the truck ran better if I unplugged the system.
When I opened the bubbler, the water level was much higher than that of the constant level tank.
depression too great?
copper tubes are 16mm
Photos of the bubbler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Not quite what you're talking about, an 1 / 2 inch is 25.4 mm / 2 = 12.7 mm ..... Crying or Very Sad

Okay, stop talking in inches, or mine is too big (': mrgreen:')

The stainless steel tube is 17.3mm inside, thickness 1.5mm (outside diameter 21.3mm), and the rod 14mm, which makes a set of 1.65mm.
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by Flytox » 07/07/11, 22:15

It is clean as construction! 8)


Your constant level done with a carburetor, may have been the corrosion problem I was telling you about. If the needle hangs open the water enters the bubbler with the vacuum for example and will not leave unless you transform it into steam. The level is no longer constant at all.

For this to work better, you would have to equalize the pressure above the float and in the water tank with a small hose for example, otherwise the pressure variations will play tricks on you. : Mrgreen: It is the height of water in the tank which must alone control the movement of the needle and not differences in upstream pressure downstream or the chop in the turns, braking acceleration etc ..... This system of constant level .. ..like more constant settings to work properly. : Mrgreen:
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by Other » 08/07/11, 05:29

Hello

For the reactor you will not improve much by making changes. I tried 10cm rod of 25cm not a huge difference (sometimes for reasons of space it is necessary to limit the length) if your rod is long is the air gap less than 1mm this makes a restriction, with 1,6mm your current length does no problem.
For your bubbler, insist a little more, start by making it simple, no constant level, just empty water in it (low level if you do small runs higher level if you do long runs with stops to complete the level , once your development you can work on a constant level (although the level in the bubbler is not critical on the performance of the system)
For the bubbler to be operational with a diesel it takes a certain depression, on the tractors, slow engine, air filter and small restrictive tubing a simple tuayu cut in whistle provided a depression bone enough to operate the bubbler, but on a diesel auto, the vacuum in the intake manifold is not sufficient for the bubbler to operate well.
Preferable to install a simple venturi which minimizes the pressure drop and gives a stronger edepression in the reactor and the bubbler.
At 2500rpm the depression should be around 75cm of water measured with a water container and a transparent plastic tube, the bubbling tone will gurgle.
Your water consumption should be between 1 liters and 1,5 llitres
it always depends on the engine load, on the driving speed side.

Do not forget to measure your consumption well before installing the system and afterwards (take notes consumption of diesel fuel, type of journey, speed, operate full to full, not when the clanche starts but when the foam is gone let it be full. Be patient, the new system takes a while to be operational, avoid chlorinated water, walk with ditch stream water, at first, then rain water, you can add a little vinegar.
A vehicle like yours must pump approximately like mine 3 liter diesel engine it was 9 liters before water doping, now in my best it approaches 6 liters on long journeys, tinkering with small grouped journeys revolves around 7,5 liters although after a certain number of years you measure only occasionally when you make a trip consisting of several kms. (tune-up, then plan family trips.)
When you are well used to your doping with water, when the bulb lacks water you will notice it on the pipe, on the gas pedal.

Andre
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by Paul » 09/07/11, 10:13

Here (finally) the plan of my second montage (with carburetor moped)

Image
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