Water doping on Renault Trafic 2.5l SOFIM

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Flytox
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by Flytox » 02/11/11, 19:41

The AVEC, it is a recovery of ventilo or it is you who manufactured it from any part? :P
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Paul
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by Paul » 03/11/11, 10:42

The AVEC, it is a recovery of ventilo or it is you who manufactures it of any part? Razz

It is I who did it, not very complicated, you measure the circumference of the entrance of the intake pipe, and try to find a tube in stainless steel or aluminum (amagnetic) of the same size, if You do not find (like me) you take a piece of tole (alu or stainless) and you cut like this:
Image
A = length divided by 8
b = proportional to "a" according to the golden ratio, I was a bit off the cuff because I don't know how to calculate the proportion : Cry:
But got better if you have the proportion.
If you have the formula, I am a taker.
C = it depends on the place you have, but not necessarily very large (2cm sufisent).

Here, on the other hand, you have to pay attention to the direction of rotation of the blades, it is necessary that the "cyclone" turns in the right direction (compared to the pipe). Dailleur, its not working on all the cars, but its depend on the pipe. On the 405 diesel of my parent, there is a kind of plastic box just before the intake departures and it doesn't work. We would have to try with 4 small vortices just before the intake departure.
It is also necessary to be careful not to reduce the air intake, it is necessary to make it a connection with a larger "hose", or is housed the vortex, between the entrance of the intake And the old air hose "hose".

CNC ??????


Constant level tank.

You follow the steam temperature at the reactor outlet? Otherwise it is hard to see if we drowned.


Er no, but what does it take as temperature to walk?
Normally, 100 ° c are reached since I have steam, right?
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by Flytox » 03/11/11, 19:10

pablo wrote:Er no, but what does it take as temperature to walk?
Normally, 100 ° c are reached since I have steam, right?


Well no, it doesn't work exactly like that, you have a mixture of air, steam and water droplets, and often those who measure find temperatures around 95 ° !!! Often this "self-regulates" around 95 ° or else it gets stuck in all directions periodically or not by more or less following the conduct.

Between dry steam, wet steam, steam-water air mixture and pressure that varies in the circuit ..... It's hard to know exactly what one is measuring : Mrgreen: Some have had results at "low" temperature (75 °? And less) others results well above 100 °. When you do a minimum of km in a configuration you end up recognizing the variations of the machine. If we change the configuration, we quickly see whether this is significant for operation or not.

Example of changes stabilize the temperature variations of others increase the acoups or the amplitude of the low high variations. What is needed is to find a relationship between what we see with this temperature and the fuel consumption / efficiency.

When the temperature drops very quickly below 80 °, it's time for drowning and it may take 5 or 10 km before leaving again at "cruising" temperature (too much water, too cold, not enough water). load, not the right air ratio?)
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Paul » 05/11/11, 15:18

Good, his shit!
It is actually my tank at constant level that disconnects, and good god of good god, che in. Why! I disassembled it, circuit, clogged the air intake, and tested to see the level: its not going to sink! Even when the outlet is largely above the tank! To throw what.
This is bricodepot, to be proscribed !!
So what the hell is that?
Flytox, for example, what did you do?

By the way, you saw the montage made by "lapierreangulaire" on an 306 of the town hall of Cahors?
I think about it, because they, they recommend a tank "giacominiR88 / 1" exclusively
and their GVI measures 25cm, not 12.6cm, (according to the formula L = 240 / C where L in mm, and C is the displacement for a diesel engine. / 1,25 for gasoline)
What do you think?
Nevertheless, their assembly is quite interesting.
Image
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by Flytox » 05/11/11, 16:07

pablo wrote:Good, his shit!
It is actually my tank at constant level that disconnects, and good god of good god, che in. Why! I disassembled it, circuit, clogged the air intake, and tested to see the level: its not going to sink! Even when the outlet is largely above the tank! To throw what.
This is bricodepot, to be proscribed !!
So what the hell is that?
Flytox, for example, what did you do?


In my configuration, the water tank is lower than the bubbler so I can make a system, where the water level is maintained by a wiper pump that gently fill the bubbler and, there is too much Which returns gravity surpluses to the tank. (Not enough backwards to say if it's a good system : Mrgreen: )

https://www.econologie.com/forums/dopage-a-l ... 0-930.html

The previous system also used the wiper pump and controlled the flow with a needle valve and a float flow meter. The known quantity of water arrived at the bottom of the reactor (part which did somewhat the function of GVI)

The time of the development of the rest, there is a very simple, economic system that works very well, it is the medical drip with its small tap. :P

By the way, you saw the montage made by "lapierreangulaire" on an 306 of the town hall of Cahors?
I think about it, because they, they recommend a tank "giacominiR88 / 1" exclusively
and their GVI measures 25cm, not 12.6cm, (according to the formula L = 240 / C where L in mm, and C is the displacement for a diesel engine. / 1,25 for gasoline)
What do you think?
Nevertheless, their assembly is quite interesting.


They do very interesting things, they may have found the constant level that is fine .... ?? For my part, I made 3 (one plastic / araldite / scororon, one with an old carbu and one with a central heating trap). None worked
correctly :frown: : Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Paul » 11/11/11, 10:51

Hello,
There is a problem, at the level of the heating of the system (not on my assembly, for now hs)
Indeed, the system seems to work better on a long journey, or when the engine is fully loaded, ie when everything is hot.
The problem is that the majority of the journeys made in cars are often less than 10 km, it would therefore be necessary for the system to function from the first kms.
Would someone find a suitable fit?
Isolating the pot would not seem enough, would anyone have tried to recirculate the gases around the reactor?

I read the post of Flytox, it is quite interesting, especially at the level of the slow motion, but after how many kms? 80? There is already less interfering, but hey, it is not finished it will succeed to improve all its!

pablo,
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by Flytox » 11/11/11, 11:36

pablo wrote:The problem is that the majority of the journeys made in cars are often less than 10 km, it would therefore be necessary for the system to function from the first kms.


The rise in temperature of "slow" heat engines is indeed a limitation. It takes at least 5 km including 3 at about 90 km / h for mine to have the temperature indicator in normal position. : Cry: So that the system Gillier Pantone works well until now it was rather in the 15 km .... and often between the 2, it was better to make a stop 5 type minutes so that it works tip top. Andrew to the same kind of observation. (No explanation! :frown: : Mrgreen: )

pablo wrote:Would someone find a suitable fit?
Isolating the pot would not seem enough, would anyone have tried to recirculate the gases around the reactor?


The pot heats up much faster than the engine at least in its front part. The pipes are not very thick and the thermal inertia is much lower.

pablo wrote:I read the post of Flytox, it is quite interesting, especially at the level of the slow motion, but after how many kms? 80? There is already less interfering, but hey, it is not finished it will succeed to improve all its!


Not yet measured, but in my opinion this has to do also in the 5 km to arrive at 80 °. The water flow of the water pump is really important and the content of the LDR bubbler (less than one liter) must be renewed several times per minute at 90Km / h.

pablo wrote:But hey, it's not finished it will succeed to improve all its!


He works there : Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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Paul
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by Paul » 11/11/11, 12:56

The rise in temperature of "slow" heat engines is indeed a limitation. It takes at least 5 km including 3 at about 90 km / h for mine to have the temperature indicator in normal position. Crying or Very Sad

yep! What do you use as a "temperature indicator"? I would also like to be able to follow the operation of my assembly in "real time".

Pablo wrote:
Would someone find a suitable fit?
Isolating the pot would not seem enough, would anyone have tried to recirculate the gases around the reactor?


The pot heats up much faster than the engine at least in its front part. The pipes are not very thick and the thermal inertia is much lower.


It means that if we manage to isolate this part of the pot (and this is where the reactor is placed), we can perhaps win a few kms, right? Has it been done?

Would not it be better to make the reactor smaller in diameter (8 or 10 mm), even if it has to put several in parallel?
The smaller it is and the faster it heats up,

What is the size of your reactor to you Flytox?


Pablo wrote:
But hey, it's not finished it will succeed to improve all its!


He works there Mr. Green


Good luck!! : Mrgreen:
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by Flytox » 11/11/11, 19:46

pablo wrote:
The rise in temperature of "slow" heat engines is indeed a limitation. It takes at least 5 km including 3 at about 90 km / h for mine to have the temperature indicator in normal position. Crying or Very Sad

yep! What do you use as a "temperature indicator"? I would also like to be able to follow the operation of my assembly in "real time".


I made the measurement a while ago, with an ambient temperature of 23 °, at the end of my 5 km the bubbler was at 73 °. In less than one kilometer more it must be at 80 °. Made with the Velleman DVM8810 Infrared Thermometer purchased on Econology (very good device and ..... not even Econo shares : Mrgreen:)
There is also the indicator of the dashboard .... it does not say how much but says it's pretty hot.


Would someone find a suitable fit?
Isolating the pot would not seem enough, would anyone have tried to recirculate the gases around the reactor?


The pot heats up much faster than the engine at least in its front part. The pipes are not very thick and the thermal inertia is much lower.


It means that if we manage to isolate this part of the pot (and this is where the reactor is placed), we can perhaps win a few kms, right? Has it been done?


AMHA, the problem of the Gillier Pantone that does not work away is not only due to the exhaust which will be too cold. The various pipes, intake manifold and other bulbs are also not in temperature and must condense a good part of the steam that is trying to convey in the cylinder head. On my Dolorean I warm the intake air. In full Winters when it freezes, I warm up about 30 '' to 1 minute at stop, then do about 1.5 km tranquillou until Stop. The intake air temperature arrives at 39 ° and the engine likes ... well all soft ....: Mrgreen: Sure the engine is faster working!


Would not it be better to make the reactor smaller in diameter (8 or 10 mm), even if it has to put several in parallel?
The smaller it is and the faster it heats up,


Chui not sure that it would work better, but on the other hand it is much more violent to achieve : Mrgreen:

What is the size of your reactor to you Flytox?


From memory, I do not have the paper on hand. Copper reactor outer shell diameter 16 / 18 mm. Stainless steel rod diameter 14 mm (bar) length 120 mm. André will explain to you that these dimensions are not critical. What you have at hand, if it's not too far away, will suit. :P

For the copper envelope, chui not sure it is a good idea in the long run. For the reaction time (steam temperature rise) when accelerated, it is the top, much faster than stainless steel. Above 500 ° approximately, the copper oxidizes and is covered with a fragile black film. By dint of producing this layer of oxide (when accelerating a little strongly), it must end up being barred with the erosion of the exhaust gases, one must finish by thinning this pipe until it pierces (supposition) . Did not raise the mileage of this reactor (at least 2000 Km?) Without problems.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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Paul
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by Paul » 11/11/11, 21:33

AMHA, the problem of the Gillier Pantone that does not work away is not only due to the exhaust which will be too cold. The various pipes, intake manifold and other bulbs are also not in temperature and must condense a good part of the steam that is trying to convey in the cylinder head.


In my case there is no bubbler (gvi) and therefore with a good insulation of the system, even a "heater" of the intake manifold or a good insulation of it, we should be able to reduce the damage ...

For the copper envelope, chui not sure it is a good idea in the long run. For the reaction time (steam temperature rise) when accelerated, it is the top, much faster than stainless steel. Above 500 ° approximately, the copper oxidizes and is covered with a fragile black film. By dint of producing this layer of oxide (when accelerating a little strongly), it must end up being barred with the erosion of the exhaust gases, one must finish by thinning this pipe until it pierces (supposition) . Did not raise the mileage of this reactor (at least 2000 Km?) Without problems.


it is true that copper is best calloporteur as stainless steel, (be done with rather thin stainless steel tube - to 1mm for the same Hours of Operation?).
Sure that its going to pierce, but after how many kilometers? Just think of changing it when you do your drain : Mrgreen:
and do not you think that is pelliculle aussis on the inside of the tube ?? you may suck into your engine! : Shock:

and you have not thought of a good insulator which is resistant to heat and not too thick? : Cheesy: and not too expensive ...

So good night,
pablo,
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