Doping 2,8l JTD 2005 127 cv

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chris59
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Doping 2,8l JTD 2005 127 cv




by chris59 » 04/07/12, 15:01

Hello
I have been looking at your posts for several years, I bought a used motorhome, I would like to boost it with water, but I have a little trouble understanding.

ideally it would be to find someone in my area to answer my questions, i live in avesnois.

I never brazed, I know how to weld with an arc and I have a metal lathe (I know that carting).

Engine

2.8L Sofim 127 CV direct injection + turbo
horizontal exhaust outlet outside diameter 53 mm.
consumption 13 to 15L per 100km / h

vehicle weight about 3 tonnes empty + trailer about 1 ton


here are my questions:

- What diameter should my reactor be taking into account the information above?
- In the reactor there is a steel bar, do you need a special steel or can I use a chromed cylinder rod that I recover there is a diameter or a shape to respect and how made you to put it in the center of the reactor.

- The vase at constant level, which is better to use.

- It is necessary to return the gases in the intake before the turbo or after.

- The water tank should be about what amount

- The bubbler, is that ?????

thank you in advance
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Flytox
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Re: Doping on 2,8l JTD 2005 127 hp




by Flytox » 04/07/12, 19:45

Hello chris59, welcome to the club.

chris59 wrote:here are my questions:

- What diameter should my reactor be taking into account the information above?


The dimensions of the reactor are not critical with respect to such and such an engine. Your reactor must be as close as possible downstream of the turbo to take full advantage of the residual heat and its section must not exceed approximately 1/3 of that of the exhaust in this same area.

- In the reactor there is a steel bar, do you need a special steel or can I use a chromed cylinder rod that I recover there is a diameter or a shape to respect and how made you to put it in the center of the reactor.


With stainless steel you won't be bothered by corrosion : Mrgreen: , according to André a bar is better than a tube. The shape of the rod is not critical, the "standard" clearance is between 0.8 and 1.5 mm at the radius. The length between 120 and 220 mm?

For centering if you have a turn .... for example, you turn your bar and makes a collar (1/10 mm of play with the envelope) at the top and bottom, then you hollow out with the file to leave of passage to gas and 3 or 4 points for centering the rod in the envelope. Or you arc weld your 3 or 4 points of support at the top and bottom of the rod and you put them round around ... etc ...

- The vase at constant level, which is better to use.

The bubbler at constant level is not mandatory at first, the time to destroy the beast. The easiest way, you take a medical drip you set your flow to about 1 liter / hour and you inject it. :P

- It is necessary to return the gases in the intake before the turbo or after.

Sending the gas just before the turbo is efficient and much easier to manage than after the turbo. So you take advantage of the vacuum upstream of the turbo to suck in the reactor and the bubbler. Downstream of the turbo, this implies that the circuit of the bubbler etc is under pressure ...... full of problems to manage when the circuit changes pressure (the turbo starts) we do not always know which way will be l 'flow ....:frown: : Mrgreen:

- The water tank should be about what amount

It is not very important, ladle table on 1 liter / hour, but at the beginning you will have to monitor regularly to see what is happening and a small reservoir (infusion) may be enough. On my R19 I have 5 liters (about 4 usable).
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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chris59
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2.8L Sofim




by chris59 » 04/07/12, 20:08

Hello

thank you for the time you have given me I can already see more clearly.
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plasmanu
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by plasmanu » 04/07/12, 20:08

Hello, you have a very nice signature : Mrgreen:

Yes, and a turbo is a turbo compressor, which will double the atmospheric pressure and the amount of O2 swallowed by the engine.
So no suction but a large backflow downstream of the turbo intake.
It is the opposite of the effect requested.
Upstream of the turbo suction it is the big good depression.
Having not mounted a reactor on a large vehicle I can not help more.
I'm just going to mount my econokit (external reactor) on my parents' motorhome to descend to the sea in August. It is a Peugeot 2500cc TD.
My father is well wrapped up to let me scratch there.
This manure (the camper) consumes these quiet 14l / 100 currently.
I could see more difference than on my 305D and these 4.9l / 100.
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Re: Doping on 2,8l JTD 2005 127 hp




by chris59 » 05/07/12, 14:21

Hello everyone

I ran the little gray matter I have and he got it out.

- I ordered a solenoid valve at 12 € on Ebay to put on a 5 liter container.
I will connect it to the Neiman of the vehicle, behind I will adapt my drip, (to avoid filling my reactor in case of forgetfulness).

- Then in drip extension I want to put car brake hose (copper repair kit), as I do not have what it takes to braze but I know how to tap, more like this hose is very flexible it will allow me to pass it around the collector or even the turbo, so that the water will already be preheated before entering the reactor.

My questions:

- Will the car brake hose be big enough to carry the water to the reactor and can I also use this same hose out of the reactor to send to the intake?

- Can the reactor be horizontal or is it better to tilt it.

Thank you in advance for your answers
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Re: Doping on 2,8l JTD 2005 127 hp




by Flytox » 05/07/12, 22:21

chris59 wrote:- Then in drip extension I want to put car brake hose (copper repair kit), as I do not have what it takes to braze but I know how to tap, more like this hose is very flexible it will allow me to pass it around the collector or even the turbo, so that the water will already be preheated before entering the reactor.


Brake line pipes are usually very small (2 or 3 mm inside?). There is a big drawback, if the temperature is too high locally (against the exhaust manifold for example) it will create a vapor buffer. The pressure increases suddenly and expels the fleet from the pipe at once. In the end, the operation is very chaotic / uncontrollable.

As André rightly says, most of the work to operate a Gillier Pantone is in the preparation of the steam that will enter the reactor. Just hot water, that's not it! You need to find the right mist of water vapor and water droplets ....... Much easier said than done : Mrgreen: For this you need an Instant Steam Generator or a bubbler or .... chai not what, but you must prepare the steam upstream of the reactor.

- ... and can I also use this same pipe from the reactor to send to the intake


No, do you need between 10 and 16 mm? You have produced a lot of gas (vapor) it does not take too much length, pressure drop and heat loss for it to work. :P

- Can the reactor be horizontal or is it better to tilt it.


AMHA the horizontal position of the reactor is absolutely to be avoided. If there is liquid water in it, at one time or another, during braking or acceleration, the fleet suddenly moves to another part of the reactor, not necessarily at the same temperature, and that can create you a big puff of steam which pushes the water in front of it ..... still functioning chaotic. In an inclined or vertical position these effects are very clearly attenuated and the operation more constant. (normally we do not do "back flight" with your car.
: Mrgreen:)
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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Re: Doping on 2,8l JTD 2005 127 hp




by chris59 » 06/07/12, 15:05

Hello

I go on vacation at the end of the month I will do 3000km and what I can roll with my drip during this trip will I save with this system.

I do not have too much the Temp and therefore the drip system pleases me well, if not allow me to save, because the buller I do not understand at all. (if you have plans I'm interested).

I have a 5 liter container I adapt the drip behind.
I think to put the container behind the passenger seat to have a good slope, the diameter of the pipe is 4 millimeters then I have 1 meter to reach the reactor.

How would you do
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... JyF9Is.pdf

From the fitting on pipe B I have to pass in copper pipe which section would you put and what length?

Reactor output I plan to put 10 Int is what I have to pass along the pot to keep the heat or keep it away.

thank you in advance
Otherwise I will have to dismantle a bubbler on an R19 in the southwest. :D
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Re: Doping on 2,8l JTD 2005 127 hp




by Flytox » 06/07/12, 23:05

chris59 wrote:Hello

I go on vacation at the end of the month I will do 3000km and what I can roll with my drip during this trip will I save with this system.


It is necessary to have made a minimum of kilometers to verify that everything is going well, before embarking on a long journey. You have to be sure that the water is well consumed by the engine. Avoid condensation that gently fills a low point in the piping or the intake manifold for example ... Swallow a big sip of water all at once ... and you can go back on foot ... : Cry: : Mrgreen:
I do not have too much the Temp and therefore the drip system pleases me well, if not allow me to save, because the buller I do not understand at all. (if you have plans I'm interested).


The bubbler is a small water tank, heated in one way or another (exhaust gas, exhaust passage, engine cooling circuit, etc.). The air that the engine sucks enters from below so as to bubble up as it rises to the surface. This creates a mixture of air, water vapor and water droplets "well suited" to the reactor.

From the fitting on pipe B I have to pass in copper pipe which section would you put and what length?


To separate the gases from the water I think it takes at least 10 mm in diameter and slope.

Reactor output I plan to put 10 Int is what I have to pass along the pot to keep the heat or keep it away.


To find out what is happening (hot enough or not hot enough) you have to measure the temperature of the steam between the reactor outlet and the inlet. The diameter is good, the length is generally chosen as short as possible, with a slope and without a low point. Opinions are divided on the temperature to be reached, some speak of around 57 ° (I have some doubts), it seems to me that below about 75 ° "in the long run" we end up drowning the reactor, beyond up to 170 °? no problem.

Otherwise I will have to dismantle a bubbler on an R19 in the southwest. :D


The Doloréan is well kept ... but you can take a guided tour.Image : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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second trial




by chris59 » 27/07/12, 18:03

Hello
0:00 - Startup of the scraper
0 H 01 - Water opening adjustment 250ml / hour
0:03 am - Steam outlet
0 H 08 - 3 backfires in the tube the steam makes some light blow
0 H 11 - 3 backfires in the tube the steam makes some light blow
0 H 14 - 3 backfires in the tube the steam makes some light blow
0 H 17 - 3 backfires in the tube the steam makes some light blow
0:20 am - water shutdown
0 h 23 - 3 Sparks in the steam tube and stop the steam outlet.

During the whole test I had no drop of water that came out.
Do you think that I can give it a try in its conditions without exploding the engine.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsg5b0 ... par-h_auto
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Re: second try




by Flytox » 27/07/12, 23:10

Hi chris59
chris59 wrote:During the whole test I had no drop of water that came out.
Do you think that I can give it a try in its conditions without exploding the engine.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsg5b0 ... par-h_auto


Chai not if it's my computer, but I have the sound and not the image. Don't you have another video format?

A stripper is much better than nothing to do simulations, but that does not answer all the questions. AMHA, at the beginning it is also necessary to monitor the complete real assembly on the vehicle with very close space and, if all goes well, we extend the interval of checks. (like there are leaks, a flexible hose cremates nicely, it gets blocked in such a place .... fills up with water here ... after an hour in town .... After a while / kilometers / stop starts / different road conditions, you control how the animal reacts and there are no more risks. :P
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


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