Doping 2,8l JTD 2005 127 cv

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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chris59
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by chris59 » 12/09/12, 19:00

Hello
I did about 3500 km this summer, my minimum consumption is 11.4 L and maximum 13.5 L by adjusting my drip to 1 per hour.

I consumed about 30 liters of water with a ladle, there were bugs, sometimes I forgot to open the water, sometimes I forgot to stop it and other times the hose was pinched.

I'm gathering the materials to make a 100% stainless bubbler.

here is a sketch
Image

I would have two, three questions

Knowing that I consume about 13 liters on average if I want to go down to 9 L, it will take 4 liters of water per 100km.

On the sketch tell me if my levels are correct or should I plan more coolant, more water etc ...

I was thinking of adding a glow plug to connect to the original glow circuit to heat the water faster when starting is this useful?

For the constant level system I think I used a solex-26-cb1 carburetor float and its needle and to make a stainless steel tank attached to the bubbler

thank you in advance
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by Flytox » 12/09/12, 21:47

chris59 wrote:I'm gathering the materials to make a 100% stainless bubbler.

here is a sketch
Image

If you have not started yet, it would be better to do with a smaller diameter (like 100 mm max). Such that, it is bulky, unnecessarily increases the thermal inertia, is going to be too sensitive to accelerations (turning, braking) and it may be not high enough for the path of the bubbles in the water (about 100 mm?) . You can also leave yourself some leeway for the dip tube which brings the air to the bottom of the bubbler, so that you can change the height adjustment and have the possibility of putting a disc riddled with small holes to make small bubbles.

I would have two, three questions

Knowing that I consume about 13 liters on average if I want to go down to 9 L, it will take 4 liters of water per 100km.

AMHA does not work like that. With a bubbler, the fleet consumption follows the engine depression in the intake, for example, and / or the air flow in the bubbler, etc. Whether you consume a little or a lot of Diesel, it is difficult to choose your water consumption, but very easy to undergo and measure it ... : Mrgreen: On my Doloréan R19, this consumption is weak and erratic (not yet really found why) and I can't seem to increase it (except to drive too fast : Mrgreen: ).


I was thinking of adding a glow plug to connect to the original glow circuit to heat the water faster when starting is this useful?


Plasmanu has made this test, chai not where it is. If you don't do a lot of start-ups and short courses, I don't really see the point. For the heating power by the LDR, you have a lot more power than it takes to bring the fleet to about 80 °, 85 ° (well it depends on the LDR flow and the exchange surface of temperature in the bubbler, etc.).

For the constant level system I think I used a solex-26-cb1 carburetor float and its needle and to make a stainless steel tank attached to the bubbler

We are several to have made this test, it does not "work" more than a few days. A carburetor full of water causes a lot of corrosion (pile between zamac, brass etc ...) A whitish mixture is created which ends up clogging / blocking the needle, nozzle float etc ... and it is not the only problem.

In principle, the "constant" level does not work normally (not even at all : Mrgreen:) in an environment where the pressure changes direction all the time (reverses). All those who tell you the opposite describe to you that the water comes out through the vent ...
...... which is proof that it does not work at a constant level. : Mrgreen: Clearly it does anything and the same level (the tank empties, overflows or passes from one to the other without warning). Any other system works better.
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by chris59 » 14/09/12, 19:19

Hello

With a friend, it was said by putting 160 in diameter the water will heat faster and in addition I have either 80 or 160.

If I separate the tank in half with a plate like in the tanks of the truck, leaving holes it will allow me to keep the tube of 160 which is for the moment gross 150 mm high (I cut it or I do not cut it? ).

As discussing in MP I will try to adapt a faucet grid (aerator) at the end of the air intake tube.

For the water supply I found a nice stainless steel tap but I don't have the budget

http://www.prosynergie.fr/fr/catalogue/ ... -3105.html

Image

I still have the 12v solenoid valve that I buy on EBAY I wonder if I could not do something with a contactor for the presence of water in the diesel filters that I would put in a room next to a bubbler.
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by Flytox » 15/09/12, 11:17

chris59 wrote:
With a friend, it was said by putting 160 in diameter the water will heat faster and in addition I have either 80 or 160.

The volume of water to be heated also increases with the diameter, this increases the inertia, it will not heat up faster, on the other hand it can create problems of size with a "bulky" bubbler which must be placed somewhere under the hood....

If I separate the tank in half with a plate like in the tanks of the truck, leaving holes it will allow me to keep the tube of 160 which is for the moment gross 150 mm high (I cut it or I do not cut it? ).

Sorry i don't know what you mean : Cry:

As discussing in MP I will try to adapt a faucet grid (aerator) at the end of the air intake tube.

You should look at the post:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/efficacite ... 3-190.html

the explanation is more complete.

For the water supply I found a nice stainless steel tap but I don't have the budget

http://www.prosynergie.fr/fr/catalogue/ ... -3105.html

Image


Must study : Mrgreen: , see the bulk in the bubbler, the fact that this tap is not intended for a very unstable water level (turning, braking) and that it is certainly provided for a pressure of several bar (well chai not how you want to feed the bubbler). If you just put a few millibars of pressure on it as well it won't be waterproof at all.

I still have the 12v solenoid valve that I buy on EBAY I wonder if I could not do something with a contactor for the presence of water in the diesel filters that I would put in a room next to a bubbler.


You can do with a much smaller level switch to control your solenoid valve, but there is always this problem of calming the level in the brakes / turns so as not to trigger at any time. It is still easier to deal with than the model pictured above.

Image

Still no action at Conrad despite appearances : Mrgreen:
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by chris59 » 15/09/12, 15:17

Hello


Quote:
If I separate the tank in half with a plate like in the tanks of the truck leaving holes it will allow me to keep the tube of 160 which is gross 150 mm high for now (I cut it or I do not cut it? ).

Sorry i don't know what you mean


Generally the 25000l semi-trailer tanks have partitions so that when the driver brakes very hard he does not make a good 3 meter with his truck after stopping.


You can do with a much smaller level switch to control your solenoid valve, but there is always this problem of calming the level in the brakes / turns so as not to trigger at any time. It is still easier to deal with than the model pictured above.


I think to make a small tank on the side with a very small entry and a small exit, I think that there will be less wave instead of the Atlantic it will be the Mediterranean
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Stainless steel bubbler




by chris59 » 07/11/12, 18:44

Hello

here is the progress of my work, I struggled, I did not think that stainless steel was deformed as much.

First of all the first tank (coolant) which will be used to heat the water. Diameter: 145 mm thick: 25 mm. (I put a pneumatic connection to do my testing I went up to 2 bars).

Image[/ Img]

tank and float
diameter: 145, height: 120 mm
the water level is around 40mm

Image

the cover with the tube and the small holes, I tried to make as said flytox holes of 1 with an intermediate of 2 millimeter but I did not know because of the hardness of the stainless steel, suddenly I I drilled at 1.5 as I could and then I put on a frother grid from the inside (whatever I'm not on the usefulness!), for the sealing of the lid I put the dough has joined black Wurth.

Image


On the tube where there are the holes what to put, is it necessary to connect it to a few things to have more bubble?

Image
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Re: Stainless steel bubbler




by Flytox » 07/11/12, 21:17

Well your achievement is tough :P

chris59 wrote:First of all the first tank (coolant) which will be used to heat the water. Diameter: 145 mm thick: 25 mm. (I put a pneumatic connection to do my testing I went up to 2 bars).

Wise care to test for leaks before assembling everything. 8)

the water level is around 40mm

It would be fine if you could try larger values ​​(up to 80mm?)

Image


Your tap is mounted at 45 ° instead of vertically, the question will he like and work normally ....? The chop due to braking, accelerations, turns may cause your float to wobble, it may be necessary to add a few partitions around to calm the game. (kind with a high and low water inlet with a 1 mm nozzle, therefore with very dampened water movements). :P

the cover with the tube and the small holes, I tried to make as said flytox holes of 1 with an intermediate of 2 millimeter but I did not know because of the hardness of the stainless steel, suddenly I I drilled at 1.5 as I could and then I put on a frother grid from the inside (whatever I'm not on the usefulness!), for the sealing of the lid I put the dough has joined black wurth

How much is the total air passage section? AMHA the aerator in series with your grille is useless except to brake the air a little more.

On the tube where there are the holes what to put, is it necessary to connect it to a few things to have more bubble?


There is no need for anything, but ultimately, you put a protective grid.

To be able to check that the level is there where you want it, it would be good to add a transparent vertical level pipe to the outside.
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by Other » 08/11/12, 05:09

Hello

chris59 wrote:Hello
I would have two, three questions

Knowing that I consume about 13 liters on average if I want to go down to 9 L, it will take 4 liters of water per 100km.



I also have a diesel engine with 3 liters of displacement the water consumption is around 1,2 to 1 liters of water and I am convinced that if I could make finer droplets, the consumption of water would be significantly lower.
4 liters of water per 100km this supposes a multiple or larger reactor because with the flow of air and water it will be difficult not to drown it, or to cool it too much. Avoid removing liquid water from the reactor and swallowing it to the engine (a measurement of the temperature at the outlet of the reactor is a good indication.
Although a consumption of 13 liters per 100km for an engine of 2,9 liters of displacement the exhaust pipe must release a lot of heat still it depends on the construction of the reactor
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by chris59 » 08/11/12, 18:51

Hello
first of all again thank you for responding very quickly.

-For partitions to avoid swirls I have this (perforated stainless steel sheet 140x180 hole 3 mm in Diam.)

Image

I only have this piece, I can cut pieces inside, I don't want to waste it in your opinion it's better that or a full sheet.

- For the water height (40 mm) I said to myself, I put the minimum possible so that it heats up faster and so that there are less swirls in turns, uphill, downhill braking etc.


How much is the total air passage section? AMHA the aerator in series with your grille is useless except to brake the air a little more.


the tube is 23 mm inside diameter.

Your tap is mounted at 45 ° instead of vertically


I am a little limited in place in my Bulleur it would have taken me a little more height to cram everything, I did several tests it is AMHA the best position, mechanically it seems to work properly even if it doesn't look very pretty.

To answer André
a measurement of the temperature at the outlet of the reactor is a good indication


I work in quality in the industry every Monday morning I also check the calibration of a dozen temperature measuring devices, but I don't have any at home.

for info here are the photos of my 100% stainless steel reactor. before assembly
- outer tube 120 mm long, inner diameter 20 mm
-internal axis 18 mm in diameter

Image
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by Flytox » 08/11/12, 21:29

chris59 wrote:-For partitions to avoid swirls I have this (perforated stainless steel sheet 140x180 hole 3 mm in Diam.)

Image

I only have this piece, I can cut pieces inside, I don't want to waste it in your opinion it's better that or a full sheet.


The mesh will not prevent anything, you would need a full sheet ... Ideally it would take just a few mm of play around the float (minimum water volume). In fact your float is very big, this is not to make things easier ....

- For the water height (40 mm) I said to myself, I put the minimum possible so that it heats up faster and so that there are less swirls in turns, uphill, downhill braking etc.

In any case, you will have to find the height that works best and that allows your float to work properly.

How much is the total air passage section? AMHA the aerator in series with your grille is useless except to brake the air a little more.


the tube is 23 mm inside diameter.

The idea was to have the passage section at the most "strangled" place. For example 10 holes of 1.5 mm at the end of the dip tube?
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