Doping 2,8l JTD 2005 127 cv

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Flytox
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Re: good news




by Flytox » 01/08/12, 22:36

chris59 wrote:on the vehicle it gives that

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... FyjOke.jpg


Your pipe is a "great" straight length and does not seem to be held towards the end (air supply side). You have a risk that it will vibrate at a certain speed and end up breaking near its fixation on the pot ...

To check, with the engine running, you gently accelerate someone while you look under the vehicle if they start dancing at a certain speed. :P
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
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chris59
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hose attachment




by chris59 » 03/08/12, 13:50

Hello

I made a fixing for the pipe I put a plumbing collar with a piece of rubber pipe to make silent block.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 4LPEaI.jpg

On the reactor I leveled my inlet pipe (where air and water come in) at the same level as the stainless steel outlet (without copper pipe connected), in fact when I open the water it flows on both sides.
Is that how to put it or I have to drop a little more on one side or the other. Knowing that when I connect the copper outlet pipe I go up a little more to go towards the intake pipe.
it's not too clear I hope you will understand.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 51XPFL.jpg

thank you in advance
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by Flytox » 03/08/12, 14:04

With this paw it will not be crossed :D


AMHA requires a slope so that the water does not suddenly rush into the reactor on first braking (anything but horizontal). The blows in the water flow give unpredictable results ... well no .... pre visibly bad. :| Drowning of the reactor, thermal shock, expulsion of fleet in the high engine ...
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

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by Flytox » 03/08/12, 14:08

For the video that I can't read, it's a known problem, incompatibility between Flash Player / Firefox that has been dragging on for at least 1 month or 2, and without solution for the moment. : Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by chris59 » 03/08/12, 16:34

Hello
I put my reactor with slope, but I made a test by filling the reactor with water to see where the water will go out first
And here I made sure that the water came out of both sides at the same time.

Reread my previous message, there I am with my tel it is not easy to write a message

Google Chrome test is a very light browser.
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by Flytox » 09/08/12, 01:32

Following your personal message:

Construction of a bubbler:

Its volume, height, diameter inlets and outlets of the various pipes must be defined before starting ..... space under the hood is a rare commodity : Mrgreen:

Choice of material: Copper, stainless steel, brass, PVC, or scrap if you want corrosion problems.

Le volume of water can range from ladle 150 cm3 to 2 liters?.
In fact, the more water there is, the more difficult it is; to heat (not hot enough), to be stored under the hood, and the thermal inertia of the body of water becomes more and more annoying.

Le air volume above the water is certainly necessary (no testing above). In any case, there must be a sufficient height of air above the water so that the bubbles that may form do not rise up in the piping and go towards the reactor (height 10 cm?).

La temperature from 57 to 90 °? Too low 57 ° I have doubts about the efficiency, and too high 90 ° according to André the steam that comes out is no longer good.

Si adjustable air inlet (diameter 2 to 6 mm approximately).
Si non-adjustable air inlet (If the restriction is made further in the circuit) diameter 10 mm to 15?)

Bubble height dependent on the suction and the engine speed of the presence of a venturi etc ...
Low height, bubbling from low revs.
greater height (10 cm?), more efficient bubbling but at higher speed. (practical when it is adjustable)

Bubble size in the bubbler, the finer the bubbles, the better it works, the greater the quantity of water carried (passage through a thin drilled disc (1 to 1.5 mm) with numerous holes (150 to 200). bubbles is very related to the diameter of the holes.

Air heating entering the bubbler. Does not change much in summer, the winter (not made these tests).

Air filtering:
If the air intake is not too close to the ground (<40cm) it is not compulsory. The bubbling cleans ..... and forms the mud at the bottom of the bubbler. A coarse grid is sufficient.

Heating of the bubbler:
1) - by direct exhaust gases (all slut, black water etc ..., incalculable water consumption).
2) - by the exhaust through a pipe (heating power to be adjusted, low inertia).
3) - by the coolant (excellent temperature regulation and operating stability, a little slower to start than solution n ° 2)

Water level:
- Electric (float), does not like swirls, braking etc ...
- Constant level like automatic purge of central heating (extremely difficult to operate correctly, cannot manage pressure variations)
- Continuous supply by small pump and overflow return (when the water tank is located lower than the rest of the installation, more complicated but very safe)

Different pipes:
- coolant diameter (8 to 16 mm inside?) (avoid high points which can fill with gas make bleeding problems of the cooling circuit)
- The water inlet hose diameter 4 mm inside (without high points + filter)
- Steam outlet in copper or synthetic diameter (8 to 15 inside?) With possibly a splash guard against braking etc ...)

Maintenance / emptying:
Possible cleaning of the mud / crystallizations which will deposit at the bottom of the bubbler.

Positioning of the bubbler:
- ideally below the intake level / height (anti-siphoning security).
- Short piping (anti cooling)
- Accessible for filling / maintenance.
- Not in the passenger compartment (boiling water security).
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Paul » 09/08/12, 15:01

Yep!
The temperature from 57 to 90 °? Too low 57 ° I have doubts about the efficiency, and too high 90 ° according to André the steam that comes out is no longer good.


So what is that? I didn't know me .... : Cry:

Sa means that the GVI is not suitable? steam too hot?

Not good it's true it's not spectacular, but there is still a drop in consumption, and pi a better recovery at acceleration ...

will have to measure all this! but hey, no time then ....
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by Flytox » 09/08/12, 23:43

Hello Pablo

pablo wrote:Yep!
The temperature from 57 to 90 °? Too low 57 ° I have doubts about the efficiency, and too high 90 ° according to André the steam that comes out is no longer good.


So what is that? I didn't know me .... : Cry:

Sa means that the GVI is not suitable? steam too hot?


Not good it's true it's not spectacular, but there is still a drop in consumption, and pi a better recovery at acceleration ...

will have to measure all this! but hey, no time then ....


The advice for making a bubbler is just the vision / synthesis of the moment (August 2012) from Flytox and nothing more : Mrgreen: . Other solutions and assemblies also work, and may be without respecting the values ​​I have given. (the subject is too vast, the instrumentation too summary, and the experiments not exhaustive so that we can give strict fixed limits etc ...)

IMHO, the GVI does not work on the same principle as the bubbler. The bubbler makes a "foam" of bubbles in the hot water and sends the vapor produced in a pipe (more or less long) to the reactor, the GVI makes the heating on its superheated walls. The steam thus produced enters "immediately" into the reactor and it also works, like the bubbler when it is properly dimensioned developed. :P

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal%C3%A9faction

Caléfaction (from the Latin calefacere: to heat) is a phenomenon of thermal insulation of a liquid compared to a heating surface having reached a threshold temperature Ts higher than the boiling point of the liquid Te. This phenomenon is due to the formation of a vapor layer between the heating surface and the liquid, making heat transfer much slower. When the surface temperature decreases (but remains between Te and Ts) there is a brutal boiling (cause of many explosions of boilers in the early days of the steam engine).

Drop in heating.

Hotdling is commonly seen when a drop of water falls on a hot plate. The drop appears to roll over the surface and does not vaporize immediately. Likewise, liquid nitrogen when spilled on a surface at room temperature forms droplets which roll over the surface.


I do not have a temperature reading for a GVI, if someone could provide information ... :P
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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chris59
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first road test




by chris59 » 10/08/12, 21:11

Hello
Here is my conclusion after a little more than 1000 km
- First full
I did about 350 km with my drips set to 200ml / hour
consumption 12,86 l usually without trailer on departmental I consume about 12,9l to 13,5 l.
- Second full
I did 468 km with my drips set to 250ml / hour
I took 145km of highway speed on the highway for not consuming too much between 95 and 110 max 14.74 L.
- Third full
Disgusted to have paid 96.56 € for 468 km I put my GPS in the opposite of my car on short route (departmental) I push the drip on about 500ml / h (the adjustment of the drip that I have '' stops at 250ml / h so I had done benchmarks before)
I breathe 500.90 km air conditioning at bottom 13.37l usually I do 13.5l with the air conditioning.

80 km before my home I make the decision as told flytox to push at 1l / hour the engine normally runs no noise.
20 km before at home I push at 1.5l / h I came back with the engine running the same.

I arrive at home, I leave the engine running I hurry to go take a look below no leakage the water is fine in the intake, a few seconds later the water comes out through the entrance.

I deduce from this that when I drive the engine drinks the water and that when I arrived at my house at 800 rpm the turbo and the depression do not siphon enough water.

I never opened the water until the engine temperature needle was at its usual operating level.

I used about 9 liters of water over 1300km.

Here is my diagram that I had sent to Flytox he advised me to put it on the post (I am zero in diagram)


https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... zgs2Jl.jpg

the dashed line was my original level and the red line is the level recommended by flytox, finally during my 1300 km I put a hair above the flytox setting.

I leave Monday in the jura I will put the setting at 1l / h and I will try to raise my level, to say to drown a little the reactor to see a little.

I also noticed something when my reactor overflowed the inlet pipe, the water flowing along the plastic pipe vibrating.
I'm almost sure that in my copper pipe the water vibrates, as if we put a container with water placed on an engine.

I hope to have been clear despite that chui of the north.
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by Flytox » 10/08/12, 23:40

You would have to monitor the steam outlet temperature, it's a good indicator to know if we are drowning the reactor. It's alive from 70 to 150 ° (with a ladle) with changes in engine load, but when you drown, you fall below 60 ° in a few seconds for example. This happens especially in town or on any small acceleration, or if there is really too much water at any one time.

Otherwise you have to wait until it hits to realize that we have gone too far with the fleet speed. :|
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


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