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Grelinette
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ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Grelinette » 12/12/18, 13:17



The interview lasts 1 hour, but Jean-Christophe Picard, President of Anticor anti-corruption association, is so posed and so convincing that it is not so long to listen!

Many topics are discussed without language: tax optimization, corruption, delaying tactics, political intervention, abuse of public property, brakes and judicial corruption, lobbies power, political ethics, fragility of whistleblowers, reports of the Court of Accounts, GAFA, etc ...

He speaks of it with a calmness and a frankness that it is good to hear ... even if the tone sometimes borders with a false naivety and a surprise a little disconcerting with respect to the subject; but it's his touch of humor to play down this dramatic subject.

Some eloquent sentences from the speech of this gentleman so diplomatic, and who challenged me:

- "Tax optimization is tolerated fraud"

- "In France every year, the cost of optimization and tax evasion is estimated between 80 and 100 billion euros, knowing that our deficit is a minus 100 billion, ... the deficit of France is simply our inability to fight fraud and tax optimization.If we managed to get the money back, France would be in surplus.

- "In Europe, tax fraud is 1000 billion € per year".

- "In France, what is surprising is that there are no official figures on fraud ... we are in denial".

- "France is the paradise of delaying maneuvers". (to save time in the judicial field. "In Spain the treasurer of a ruling party has been sentenced to 33 years imprisonment for corruption, in France our lawsuits for corruption last 33 years!")

- "In the Scandinavian countries there is a high degree of transparency, and very little corruption, these are countries where people feel the happiest and I think it is linked to the very good distribution of wealth: when the money is well used we have better public services, we pay less taxes, ... "

- "After having compared the programs of the candidates to the presidential election on the moralisation of the political life, the 3 who made the most proposals were: Mélenchon, Dupont-Aignan and Hamon".

- "In France, people like elected officials who have pans!" (citing a theory of Philippe Séguin)

- According to an IFOP survey, there is in France only 65% of the population who think that the President of the Republic must be honest ".


The viewing of this interview should be made mandatory for all elected officials, politicians, officials, etc., in fact for everyone ... even yellow vests would find ideas of clear and concrete claims!


You have work to do, dear sir,
and I bring you my support by joining theAssociation ANTICOR.
(https://anticor.espace-adherent.org/)

"To show the example is not the best to convince, it's the only one." (Gandhi)
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Christophe » 12/12/18, 13:37

Attention tax optimization is not corruption and is not illegal and it's not fraud ... it's just to use the system the best! Find your "weak points" to increase financial profit ...

And so much for your mouth if you, little independent, you can not do it and the big multinationals do it ... you have not understood yet understood that here are the strongest who win?
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Grelinette » 12/12/18, 14:44

Christophe wrote:Warning tax optimization is not corruption and is not illegal and it's not fraud... it's just making the best use of the system! Find your "weak points" to increase financial profit ...

This is called, especially in politics (and invented by communication consultants), a "language element".

This is another controversial debate and very vague, but for the President of Anticor "tax optimization is a tolerated fraud".
Just like the delaying tactics and judicial procedures to slow down a lawsuit, as well as opacity and secrecy laws in business, just like the powers of lobbies, as well as clientelism, etc., etc., in short, everything which is legally "border-line" but legal!

There is a moment when you have to call a cat, a cat, and a fraudster, a fraudster, without drowning in linguistic and semantic subtleties (or legal interpretation olé ole) that have no purpose other than have bladders taken for lanterns.


"It is perfectly illegal and condemnable, Judge, because the old lady has used a disproportionate answer for his defense by giving a violent blow with his handbag to his attacker who had only his empty hands for the steal him! ... " : Cheesy:

You will have corrected, but I rewrite the last sentence of my first comment:
"Leading by example is not the best way to convince, it's the only one. "(Gandhi)
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Christophe » 12/12/18, 15:28

Disagree: we can not talk about fraud as long as it's legal ... even boderline, it's still legal!

If politicians, corrupted perhaps, have decided to vote or leave in place tax loopholes that benefit more or less large company, it is not those who exploit these loopholes that are corrupt and illegal!

And to reassure you, the IS (Corporate Tax) works rather well still in France ... except for some very large American companies including ... (GAFA, Starbucks ...)

This is not the case in Belgium where there are real tax agreements, just like in Luxembourg!

In Belgium most of the tax is on individuals and work (tax rate 50% from 30 000 ...) but some French still think that France is the worst country in the world .. .

Table published a few days before the November 17 Yellow Vests:

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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Gaston » 12/12/18, 15:36

Christophe wrote:Disagree: we can not talk about fraud as long as it's legal ... even borderline, it's legal!
You have (alas) reason.
There are completely immoral things that are legal ... : Cry:
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Christophe » 12/12/18, 16:23

Of course, legality and morality is certainly not the same thing!
Even if that is what we try to make believe to little children ... : Cheesy:

A fascist law in a dictatorship is certainly not moral but quite legal ... at least in the country in question!

Closer to home, if politics was moral, do you think there are so many rascals in politics? And only knows the emerged part of course ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Evil is inscribed in the depths of a lot of humans and it's like that unfortunately ... and as in the "human system" the harm is (much) easier to do (and even rewarded !! *) that the well ... well some release their true nature!

It is the law of the stronger (to dominate the other) found in nature and that our human societies try to compensate with more or less success according to the times ...

What am I pessimistic? : Cheesy:

* it begins for example, by denouncing or crushing a colleague to have a promotion, do not believe that the evil is reserved for the elites ... they do it just on a larger scale ... : Cheesy:
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 12/12/18, 17:53

What is amazing is that rich people can steal, since they can do it legally ... : roll:
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby ENERC » 12/12/18, 19:44

Gaston wrote:There are completely immoral things that are legal ...

For multinationals, tax optimization is simple. An example:
- I sell products to 100 € in France,
- I declare 20 € marketing made by a box in Ireland,
- I have 30 € R & D costs made by a company registered in a tax haven,
- I have 30 € material from China,
- I have 25 € distribution fees in France

Appraisal: 100 - 20 -30 -30 -25 = -5 €

The French subsidiary is in deficit and therefore does not pay taxes in France.
Marketing in Ireland is little imposed
R & D tax goes by the wayside
The distribution in France can pay taxes if it's a French box, but if it's a multinational is missed
Customs inscribe 30 € in the "imports" box

The figures are sometimes manipulated to overestimate the costs (marketing and R & D costs), and sometimes not: it is the box that relocates services to countries where it is less taxed.

There you go. It's simple.
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Grelinette » 12/12/18, 20:43

We really play on words! Moreover, even if the tax optimization is "legal", the fact remains that it is very discreet or hidden ... curious, no?

In addition, the word "legal"is very relative: it is often those who benefit from tax optimization who make the laws or help to make them and vote (lobbies).

That's what is distressing: there are laws, rules of the game, that most citizens respect as if they were "words of the gospels", yet some laws were clearly made to measure, by and for those who benefit. Remember, a few years ago the deputies voted for the amnesty law for politico-financial crimes ... it's a bit sober on the value of certain laws!

What is even more surprising, while listening to this interview of the President of Anticor, is this trivialization of corruption, and to be able to quote names of politicians always on the front of the scene who have "legal casseroles" but very noisy!

For example, Mr. Eric Woerth at the same time Minister of the Budget, thus holding the keys of the famous "lock of Bercy", and at the same time treasurer of the Ump at a time (2002) to which one knows today that all n was not fiscally or very clearly nor very clean ... But nothing "illegal", since the law authorizes the boss of Bercy to turn a blind eye to some tax shenanigans, even though the concerned is the origin . The law is the law !

Dura lex, sed lex: "Hard is the law, but it is the law" ... In this case it is rather "Molle is the law, but it is the law!".
(I let Latinisms make this new Latin translation more relevant).
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Re: ANTICOR, interview of its president: very interesting, to listen

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 12/12/18, 21:10

I would prefer: "The law is hard for the poor, but sweet for the rich and the powerful."
And this is not a coincidence, because, as you underline, the law is tailor-made for those who make it ...
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