Innovations to reduce the consumption of fossil fuelsABC Machine Poll

Innovations, ideas or patent to reduce fossil energy consumption, for example, new wind, new solar panels, geothermal system evolved ...

Can the ABC machine exist?

No, it violates the second principle and therefore surely does not exist
6
75%
Yes, it does not violate any principle of physics, and it may very well exist.
2
25%
Yes, it violates the second principle, but the second principle may be wrong.
0
no votes
 
Total votes: 8
ABC2019
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ABC Machine Poll

by ABC2019 » 03/11/20, 21:03

Hello

the discussions on the systems to produce energy having taken a surrealistic turn, I launch a small survey on the possibility of a machine which I will call "the machine of ABC", by asking you if you think it is possible. Please choose one of the three possibilities offered by the survey before commenting on the thread.

Description of the ABC machine: it is a black box with smooth walls and without defects, but there are two metal rods protruding from one side for plugging in electrical connectors. The box is waterproof. Nothing can fit there. There is a voltage between the two terminals that allows the machine to indefinitely output a current when plugged into a receiver, without needing recharging, when it is immersed in a room of uniform temperature. Careful measurement of the wall temperature while it is delivering shows that it is slightly cooler than the room, suggesting that a continuous flow of heat must enter it, but that's it. As it delivers indefinitely, it is a clean, infinite source of energy, you can use the current for whatever you want, heat yourself, run a motor, charge a capacitor that can power a voltage chopper, whatever. 'we can do with electricity. The electrical power will end up in heat which will be recaptured by the box and therefore it runs indefinitely.

You don't really know what's in the box, maybe there is graphene, or a Tesla capacitor, or something that exploits an unknown energy, you don't know, you just find that it delivers a continuous current without the need of recharging (ah there is no indication of radioactivity either, it is not a long life atomic battery!)

The question is simple: do you think that such a thing can exist?
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ABC2019
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by ABC2019 » 04/11/20, 11:08

seriously, isn't one that gets wet, apart from me?

the gogos have a bright future ahead of them, I tell you! : Mrgreen:
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by Christophe » 04/11/20, 11:14

Come on I get wet, if there is a loop and there are no technological artifices yes she violates it ...
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by sicetaitsimple » 04/11/20, 11:45

ABC2019 wrote:seriously, isn't one that gets wet, apart from me?
the gogos have a bright future ahead of them, I tell you! : Mrgreen:


Just a hypothesis, for your reflection: with nearly 11 messages / day on average since your registration, maybe some do not really want to maintain "the machine" posts, whatever their opinion on your question?

A "galore".
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pedrodelavega
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by pedrodelavega » 04/11/20, 11:57

Idem
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eclectron
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by eclectron » 04/11/20, 12:22

ABC2019 wrote:
The question is simple: do you think that such a thing can exist?

What is good is that I read it, if I want! : Lol:
The public vote now but it's fair game, I appealed to a friend to have the answer.

Yes your device can exist and already exists, it's called resistance.
It is not as perfect as you describe it and it only works if there is heat exchange with the ambient temperature and if we use technical devices (reactive amplification) to make this power P = Kb T delta F a tad exploitable.
And important precision this available power is ridiculously low
yaka calculate according to the bandwidth and the working temperature.
1Hz of band gives roughly 4.10 ^ -21 W ....

The continual heat exchange with the ambient temperature means that it does not violate thermodynamics.
There is neither more nor less energy in the overall system. She's just shifted and focused.
Yes it hurts the thermodynamicist's ass that we can do that but yet it is not violated. : Mrgreen:

To expose this in a caricatured way as you do it does not exist. (Not yet : Mrgreen: )
End of the game for me : roll:
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ABC2019
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by ABC2019 » 04/11/20, 12:25

sicetaitsimple wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:seriously, isn't one that gets wet, apart from me?
the gogos have a bright future ahead of them, I tell you! : Mrgreen:


Just a hypothesis, for your reflection: with nearly 11 messages / day on average since your registration, maybe some do not really want to maintain "the machine" posts, whatever their opinion on your question?

A "galore".

the purpose of the survey is precisely to get to the point by avoiding myriads of posts, moreover I will not respond to eclectron, who has just confirmed that he has not understood anything about the second principle :).
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eclectron
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by eclectron » 04/11/20, 13:56

ABC2019 wrote: who has just confirmed that he did not understand the second principle :).

It's quite possible ... but you can't hear anything from sensors and energy converters ... : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
resistance = sensor
Associated passive electronics = start of converter.
The energy available is so low that it would be difficult to supply active electronics to make the voltage / current levels interesting.
But nothing forbids it, in theory.
hence the process with graphene probably more efficient.

To simplify understanding, it is sum if with a single photovoltaic cell, I decided to supply a city with electricity for one day.
It's possible !
I just didn't say the time that I had to put in storing energy for years (?) And the associated battery bank and the associated inverters.

Resistance as a source of energy is possible.
It is a thermal energy / electrical energy converter.
It doesn't have much to convert since it's all the same thing = thermal agitation of electrons.
It's possible but it's stupid from a utility point of view, like my example of a photovoltaic cell to power a city for one day.
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ABC2019
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by ABC2019 » 04/11/20, 14:48

for those who are interested, little reminders on the principles of thermal machines, which only take over the basic tips that I have already exposed on other threads, and which are demonstrated in a few lines from the first pages of the course on the machines:

http://www.matthieurigaut.net/public/su ... 6_prof.pdf

http://cdelacourphysique.chez.com/cours ... ap%206.pdf

if you understand French correctly written in simple words, you will quickly see that what I call the "ABC machine" is nothing other than a monothermal motor, that this monothermal motor is impossible according to the second principle, and that it is completely independent of what is inside (it is precisely the power of thermodynamics to be completely general and independent of the physics of microscopic processes, and a little its weakness also since it does not allow this physics to be constrained). Any argument which would be based on "yes but it is not the same if one uses such or such phenomenon" is false, the prohibition is general and independent of the physics which is inside: therefore of the 3 propositions, only the 2 is logically untenable. Yes, this machine is incompatible with the second principle, so either it does not exist (proposition 1), or it exists, but then that would prove that the second principle is false (proposition 3). Logical principle of the excluded third party, thank you Mr. Aristotle.
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eclectron
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Re: ABC Machine Poll

by eclectron » 04/11/20, 15:40

... and therefore the collection of surrounding energy is impossible, energy conversion is impossible, of course according to Sieur ABC's interpretation of thermodynamics.
Fortunately, the world is not aware of YOUR science, because everything would roll up. : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
finished the photovoltaic, finished the wind turbines, finished the converters of electrical energy etc ...

We are not going to start over but here you are only demonstrating your neuronal limitations ...
and your friends who vote for "you" ditto.
most of them must be in my ignore list, in other words the obtuse list.

Izy did the same thing to me as you, with the capacitor output from PV. Finally to agree that one was needed (if one wants to optimize the output in front of a converter, otherwise it is not obligatory of course).

Even though I'm the only one right, I don't mind, I'm right. : Mrgreen:
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