Replace the wind?

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VoltX
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Replace the wind?




View VoltX » 03/03/10, 00:12

Hello everybody

I am new to this forumbut I am interested in ecology and especially in new technologies. I saw a report on the national geographic chain talking about a new balloon to produce energy through the wind a bit like wind turbines.

While doing some research on the internet I came across this interesting article: http://www.nerdgen.net/2010/02/28/un-ballon-geant-pour-produire-de-lenergie.html

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What do you think of this solution?

Is it viable in your opinion?
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Christophe
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View Christophe » 03/03/10, 10:38

Yes it is valid and viable ... especially in case of storm can be dismounted quickly ...

By cons I still did not understand how was "managed" against torque ... since in the absence of fixed point, nothing prevents (except "ballast" and "rigidity" of the cable / wind) to do a pirouette! This limits the power of the device by its admissible torque.

1000 kW AC gives a HUGE counter torque to compensate in the generator ...

Even with X cables in a triangle (which would prevent a good alignment with the wind) it would be tricky!

We talked about Magenn here in 2006: https://www.econologie.com/forums/magenn-pow ... t1843.html
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View elephant » 03/03/10, 22:53

if I see well, there are two turbines on the balloon. If the pitch of the propeller is the opposite, there is a cancellation of the contrecouples, no?
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dirk pitt
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View dirk pitt » 04/03/10, 11:13

Christophe wrote:Yes it is valid and viable ... especially in case of storm can be dismounted quickly ...

By cons I still did not understand how was "managed" against torque ... since in the absence of fixed point, nothing prevents (except "ballast" and "rigidity" of the cable / wind) to do a pirouette! This limits the power of the device by its admissible torque.


I think from the images that the couple is taken up by a rigid mechanical arm on the axis of the generator, and this arm is naturally placed in the alignment of the cable that extends.
if the arm is long enough, then, the only tension of the cable prevents this arm from turning and counterbalances the torque of the generator. on the other hand I did not see anything on a model 1000kW as you quote but rather a model 100kW which is already huge. it weighs 6 tons according to doc.

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View Christophe » 04/03/10, 11:15

Uh, yes, good point. Indeed it would be possible but in this case at Magenn, I do not see anything like this ...

The balon (see 2ieme image) is perpendicular (in its largest axis) to the wind ... and includes a wind turbine type darius / savonius so the axis is horizontal ...

In short I do not see how to make a counter torque setting in this configuration since the ball (1st image) does not seem "cut" in the middle ...
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View dirk pitt » 04/03/10, 11:28

excuse Christophe but I do not understand what you mean: 1er image 2eme image ???
the image I posted comes from the magenn site.
for me the rotor of the gené is linked to the balloon. this gene being probably based on brushless, the rotor contains only magnets. the stator comprising the windings is fixed to the arm and the cable. there is no collector, brooms or other.
moreover, when the arm tends to rotate, its angle with respect to the tension of the cable increases, which increases the return torque to equilibrium. the system is stable.
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View Christophe » 04/03/10, 11:35

I speak of the 1er photo post, we wrote our message at the same time (I had not seen yours). 1000 kW is on the 1ere image on the right ...

The technology of the generator has nothing to do with the presence or absence of engine torque ...

If it does not exist then the system is not stable and will "move" ... On a balloon fixed to a single cable, it cannot have counter torque, unless the balloon is ballasted ... and even in this case if the ballast should create a variable "moment" depending on the wind speed.

I think that the solution proposed by elephant is much more interesting and easy to achieve ... 2 balloons should be coupled with reversed direction of rotation ...
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View elephant » 04/03/10, 11:37

Dirk Pitt said

the stator comprising the windings is fixed to the arm and the cable. there is no collector, brooms or other.


There is still a reaction to the torque given by the propeller, by the action of the electromotive force on the rotor, whether it is powered or permanent magnets.

I would tend to imagine this kind of thing in a nacelle stowed under the balloon, just to create a balloon-mooring tension on this basket. The balloon would also cost less.
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View Christophe » 04/03/10, 11:48

Yes elephant, with a gyratory platform ... to align with the prevailing winds ... because an amare would prohibit a rotation.

Here is what I want to say about the counter-couple (I draw with the feet I know):

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a) blue = engine torque of the wind
b) red = against torque on the generator frame as soon as a load is applied to the generator = motor torque of the wind - internal friction

This against torque will necessarily be transmitted on the frame so on the cables = winding around the cables if no point of support!

The only trick would be that the pull of the cables is sufficient to now balance the system but I can not believe it ...

So 2 things one is:
a) I'm wrong and I have to go back to my general mechanics class
b) I'm right and the guys at Magenn's are clowns

In 2 case it's not funny ... :|
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View dirk pitt » 04/03/10, 12:44

on your diagram, it is easily realized that the red counter-torque is easily taken over by the tension of the cables on the wire mesh arms when an angle will begin to form between the cable and the arm.
as I said, the more the torque increases, the more the angle between this arm and the cable will increase, thus increasing the counter-torque exerted by the pulling force of the cable.
it is not necessary that the angle exceeds 90 °, but the couple grew well before. simply put arms long enough so that the pulling force (fixed) generates the desired counter-torque for the desired maximum angle.
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