China BYD: New LFP> Li-Ion classic batteries

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jean.caissepas
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China BYD: New LFP> Li-Ion classic batteries




by jean.caissepas » 16/01/20, 18:34

The Chinese car manufacturer BYD has filed a battery patent authorizing more than 600 km of driving range:

https://news.metal.com/newscontent/1010 ... -two-days/

The cars to come:
https://www.automobile-propre.com/breve ... ectrifiee/
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Re: China BYD: New LFP> Classic Li-Ion batteries




by GuyGadebois » 16/01/20, 18:36

jean.caissepas wrote:The cars to come:
https://www.automobile-propre.com/breve ... ectrifiee/

Grotesque, once again ... No need for so much power these days.
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Re: China BYD: New LFP> Classic Li-Ion batteries




by Exnihiloest » 16/01/20, 19:05

jean.caissepas wrote:The Chinese car manufacturer BYD has filed a battery patent authorizing more than 600 km of driving range:

https://news.metal.com/newscontent/1010 ... -two-days/

The cars to come:
https://www.automobile-propre.com/breve ... ectrifiee/


Interesting but perhaps still premature. With 450 km of autonomy, it is too little for a road (and it is theoretical. In practice and with a somewhat sporty driving that justifies the vehicle, or on the highway, it will probably be less). Then the second weak point of the electric, it is the charging time and there I see nothing in the article. If it takes an hour to recharge every 400 km, that's not fine.
If I am quite ready to switch to electric for a city car, I do not yet see credible alternatives among the road for my uses and the only cause despite all the progress made in recent years, it is still the drums.
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Re: China BYD: New LFP> Classic Li-Ion batteries




by ENERC » 16/01/20, 19:43

Grotesque, once again ... No need for so much power these days.

This comes from constraints on the charging speed.
In classic Lithium Ion, you can only charge a maximum of 3C. Small calculation:
- if you want to recover 200 km in 15 minutes of laying pee with a car that consumes 20 kWh per 100 km at 130 km / h, you must put 40 kWh in the battery.
- in 15 min, that makes a charging power of 4 * 40 -> 160 kW.
- therefore a minimum battery size of 160/3 -> 55 kWh
- and therefore a good 400 km of autonomy in the WLTP cycle.

It is the shutdown every 2 hours that sizes the battery capacity: 40 kWh consumed on a 60 kWh battery, you arrive with the gauge at 33%.
Or if you leave with 80% battery, there is 15% left at the charging station.

Charging faster does not help much: except for calluses on the road, a pose every 2 hours does not hurt and we often stop for more than 10 minutes.
A larger battery is also not used for much, because the larger it is, the heavier and therefore the more it consumes.
For example, the Audi e-tron with these 95 kWh of batteries and its 3130 kg empty ... goes less far than other lighter vehicles.

The right size is 50-60 kWh for the 2 hours of motorway and charging at 150-200 kW to refuel the time of a coffee.
LFP / Classic Lion: whatever. What matters is the price.
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Re: China BYD: New LFP> Classic Li-Ion batteries




by GuyGadebois » 16/01/20, 20:46

I was talking about the power of the engines, not the capacity of the batteries. You divide the power by 2 (more than enough, especially with engines engorged with torque from zero rpm) and you increase the range.
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Re: China BYD: New LFP> Classic Li-Ion batteries




by Exnihiloest » 17/01/20, 21:04

ENERC wrote:
Grotesque, once again ... No need for so much power these days.

This comes from constraints on the charging speed.
In classic Lithium Ion, you can only charge a maximum of 3C. Small calculation:
- if you want to recover 200 km in 15 minutes of laying pee with a car that consumes 20 kWh per 100 km at 130 km / h, you must put 40 kWh in the battery.
- in 15 min, that makes a charging power of 4 * 40 -> 160 kW.
- therefore a minimum battery size of 160/3 -> 55 kWh
- and therefore a good 400 km of autonomy in the WLTP cycle.

It is the shutdown every 2 hours that sizes the battery capacity: 40 kWh consumed on a 60 kWh battery, you arrive with the gauge at 33%.
Or if you leave with 80% battery, there is 15% left at the charging station.

Charging faster does not help much: except for calluses on the road, a pose every 2 hours does not hurt and we often stop for more than 10 minutes.
A larger battery is also not used for much, because the larger it is, the heavier and therefore the more it consumes.
For example, the Audi e-tron with these 95 kWh of batteries and its 3130 kg empty ... goes less far than other lighter vehicles.

The right size is 50-60 kWh for the 2 hours of motorway and charging at 150-200 kW to refuel the time of a coffee.
LFP / Classic Lion: whatever. What matters is the price.


Thank you for this very instructive summary. This is where I realize that we are even further from the account than I thought. I never stopped every 2 hours when I go on long trips. I take one or two breaks on 800 to 900 km of highway. Even with four breaks, it would be problematic. So I will have to wait again or opt for the hybrid.
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Re: China BYD: New LFP> Classic Li-Ion batteries




by sicetaitsimple » 17/01/20, 21:21

If you regularly travel from 800 to 900km, pure electric is certainly not the right choice today if you plan to change your car soon.
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