Fed up with electron volts!

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elephant
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Fed up with electron volts!




by elephant » 16/12/11, 13:31

Yes i'm fed up with volt electrons : Evil:

Certainly, I went to see in books, on the Internet and all I could get was a theoretical definition.

I made a separate post for clarity

My question is primarily intended for Deledeco, but I think that the answer will interest everyone:

How, using electrical or electronic means can I subject a mass M of matter to an energy of N electron volts.
(So ​​I want a quantifiable and calculable answer like "for 1 g of Nickel, run a current of X amps under Y volts) or put it in a 1000 watt µ-wave oven.
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by dedeleco » 16/12/11, 14:15

There will be an avalanche of wikipedia if I do not control myself !!!

eV = energy of an electron acquired with a volt to accelerate it.

You have to make a particle accelerator !!
Example that of heavy ions in Caen !!

Before seeing the former as in radio vacuum lamps which accelerate electrons to a few tens of eV;

The Crookes tube, one of the first and simplest !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_de_Crookes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_tube
At more than 10KeV we do X-rays even in a well-sealed CRT TV.


Good old CRT TVs !!
Microwave ovens.

How, using electrical or electronic means can I subject a mass M of matter to an energy of N electron volts.
(So ​​I want a quantifiable and calculable answer like "for 1 g of Nickel, run a current of X amps under Y volts) or put it in a 1000 watt µ-wave oven.


So you need a source of particles to accelerate (in general vacuum, otherwise neutralization by air except lightning or very complex discharge), easy for electrons, heated metal.
Then accelerate by fixed or alternating voltage under fairly good vacuum.
Current does not count, only voltage counts on a single electron, which ends up with 1eV for 1 accelerated volt !!

1ev is the energy that demolishes chemical bonds, for example by UV light, because 1eV = 11605 ° K of memory to correct for decimals, already high in chemistry (double the sun at 6000 ° C) !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectron-volt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt
For 1KeV you need 1000Volts on a single electron!
And the current determines the number of electrons that pass (Faraday).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray


For other particles charged with an electric charge, heavier, it is necessary to multiply by the mass ratio of the particle on mass of the electron.

Finally to make a source of charged ions like H + or Ni it is more difficult because it is necessary to evaporate then ionize, with electrons, discharges or laser, then to accelerate, as in mass spectrometers or Ganil
http://www.ganil-spiral2.eu/
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrom%C ... e_de_masse

The ionization source: it consists of vaporizing the molecules and ionizing them. An ionization source can be used either in positive mode to study positive ions, or in negative mode to study negative ions. Several types of sources exist and are used depending on the desired result and the molecules analyzed.
Electronic ionization (EI), chemical ionization (CI) and chemical desorption-ionization (DCI)
The bombardment by fast atoms (FAB), metastable atoms (MAB) or ions (SIMS, LSIMS)
Inductive plasma coupling (ICP)
Chemical ionization at atmospheric pressure (APCI) and photoionization at atmospheric pressure (APPI)
Electrospray or electrospray (ESI)
Desorption-ionization laser assisted by matrix (MALDI), activated by a surface (SELDI) or on silicon (DIOS)
Ionization-desorption by interaction with metastable species (DART)


See NASA for ion engines.


Finally a discharge makes a plasma with full of electrons and accelerated and hot ions.
Last edited by dedeleco the 16 / 12 / 11, 15: 01, 1 edited once.
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Re: Fed up with electron volts!




by Gaston » 16/12/11, 14:19

elephant wrote:How, [...] then can I subject a mass M of matter to an energy of N electron volts.
The electron-volt is a unit of energy, like the Watt-hour or the Joule.
An electron volt is therefore equal to approximately 1,60217653 × 10 ^ -19 joule (J).
As such, it can be used to measure all types of energy (potential, kinetics, ...).

To answer your question, you should know what you mean by "submit".

Note:
In particle physics, we often ask to simplify the equations c = 1. The electron volt can then measure a mass (in reality in eV / c²) or a momentum (in reality in eV / c)
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by dedeleco » 16/12/11, 15:09

To ionize before acceleration by a voltage the different variants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_glow_discharge
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrom%C ... e_de_masse
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionisation ... %28APCI%29
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89nerg ... ionisation
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acc%C3%A9l ... particules
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_d%2 ... 3%A9gatifs

The ionization source
The EI and CI ionizations, which require a certain level of vacuum, are preferably used in conjunction with gas chromatography (the CI operating from an EI source). On the other hand, the two sources at atmospheric pressure (electrospray and APCI) called “soft ionization”, are mainly used in coupling with liquid phase chromatography.
Electronic ionization (EI)
Electronic ionization source
Electrons emitted by a filament meet the molecules that enter the source: during the encounter, if the kinetic energy of the electrons is sufficient, an electron is torn from the molecule M, transforming it into a radical ion M + o. This can then fragment according to its internal energy. The IE thus leads to a fairly full spectrum, with many fragments, very rich in structural information.
Chemical ionization (CI) [edit]
Source of chemical ionization
In addition to the above EI device, a reactive gas is introduced into the source and ionized by electronic impact. This is followed by a series of reactions which give rise to ions which can react with the analyte molecules arriving in the source. This type of ion-molecule reaction mainly produces (in positive mode) ions [MH] +, and [M + adduct + H] +, thus allowing access to the molecular mass of the analyte.
Methane, isobutane and ammonia are among the most used chemical ionization gases.
For the detection of globally electronegative molecules, comprising halogenated parts, negative chemical ionization can be used. The principle is to negatively charge these molecules by bombarding them with electrons which will be captured by the electron-withdrawing atoms. Due to the high probability of electron capture, this type of ionization can be 1000 times more sensitive than positive chemical ionization1
Fast atom bombardment ionization (FAB)
It makes it possible to analyze molecules that cannot be vaporized under vacuum (large biological molecules). Ionization is carried out by vapor phase expulsion of the ions contained in a liquid sample following a bombardment of fast atoms (Ar or Xe). The molecules thus ionized do not have much internal energy, the fragmentation is therefore weak but the molecular ion is easily recognizable and the molecular mass is easy to determine. The sample is mixed in solution with a non-volatile liquid matrix (glycerol, thioglycerin, m-nitrobenzyl alcohol). A high energy beam (of the order of 4 to 10 keV) of neutral atoms (Ar or Xe) is sent to the sample and the matrix in the collision chamber thus causing the phenomena of desorption and ionization. Pre-existing ions in solution are expelled in the gas phase and accelerated to the analyzer.
Electrospray ionization (electrospray) (ESI)
Main article: Ionization by electrospray (ESI).
Electrospray ion source
Its principle is as follows: at atmospheric pressure, the droplets of solutes are formed at the end of a fine capillary brought to a high potential. The intense electric field gives them a high charge density. Under the effect of this field and thanks to the possible assistance of a co-axial air stream, the liquid effluent is transformed into a cloud of fine droplets (spray) charged according to the ionization mode. Under the effect of a second stream of heated air, the droplets gradually evaporate. As their charge density becomes too high, the droplets explode, releasing microdroplets made up of protonated or deprotonated molecules of the analyte, carrying a variable number of charges.
The ions thus formed are then guided with the aid of electrical potentials applied to two successive sampling cones acting as barriers with the downstream parts maintained under a high vacuum (<10-5 Torr). During this high pressure journey, the ions undergo multiple collisions with the gas and solvent molecules, which completes their desolvation. By varying the electrical potentials applied in the source, it is possible to cause more or less significant fragmentations.
The advantage of this ionization method as for the APCI is the obtaining of multicharged ions, for the macromolecules, polymers. It also makes it possible to generate a "soft" ionization: the majority of molecular ions are formed.
Chemical ionization at atmospheric pressure (APCI)
Main article: Chemical ionization at atmospheric pressure (APCI).
The liquid samples are directly introduced into a pneumatic nebulizer. Under the effect of a jet of air or nitrogen, the liquid is transformed into a fine mist. Heating ensures the desolvation of the compounds. These are then chemically ionized at atmospheric pressure: in general, the vaporized mobile phase acts as an ionization gas and the electrons are obtained from corona electrode discharges. The ionization of the compounds is very favored during these techniques because the frequency of collisions is high at atmospheric pressure.
APCI is a technique analogous to chemical ionization (CI), it calls for ion-molecule reactions in the gas phase, but at atmospheric pressure and essentially leads to the formation of [MH] + or [MH] ions. -.
Matrix-assisted laser desorption-ionization (MALDI)
Main article: Desorption-ionization laser assisted by matrix.
MALDI ion source
A pulsed laser beam is used, generally in the ultraviolet field, to desorb and ionize a matrix / co-crystallized sample mixture on a metal surface, the target.
The matrix molecules absorb the energy transmitted by the laser in the form of UV photons, excite and ionize. The energy absorbed by the matrix causes its dissociation and its passage into the gas phase. The ionized matrix molecules transfer their charge to the sample. The expansion of the matrix drives the sample into the dense gas phase where it will finish ionizing.
The ionization of the sample therefore takes place either in the solid phase before the desorption, or by charge transfer during collisions with the excited matrix after desorption. It leads to the formation of single-charged and multi-charged ions of the [M + nH] n + type, with a clear preponderance for the single-charged.
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by elephant » 16/12/11, 15:53

Aaaaah! :D

So if for example I create a corona in a hydrogen medium, with for example 30 kV (easy, it's a TV THT) and I have a current of 1 mA and I have a cathode in nickel?
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by dedeleco » 16/12/11, 15:58

The problem is that the energy acquired is lost at the same time on the air molecules by collisions over the distance of the mean free path at 1 Bar and therefore the atoms do not exceed a few eV in the plasma obtained, reason for taking vacuum, unless you do this over very short distances less than the average free path.
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by elephant » 16/12/11, 17:19

What is this very short distance?

Be careful, we would be in an atmosphere of pure hydrogen
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by chatelot16 » 16/12/11, 19:26

the electron volt is a unit of energy like the joule or the KWh

one could always quantify in electron volt the kinetic energy which one gives to a mass of 1kg by pushing it at a speed V ... but it is without interest, the joule is more practical

when we connect the energy in electron volts to a light radiation, X, or radio active, we do not measure the total energy emitted by the source, but the energy of each particle, photon or electron

in the case of an electron beam, the energy of each electron depends only on the voltage

when the electron beam hits something, this energy in eV determines the maximum frequency of light that can be emitted: with sufficient energy it can be x-ray
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by dedeleco » 17/12/11, 02:00

What is this very short distance?
Be careful, we would be in an atmosphere of pure hydrogen


The mean free path of molecules with H2 is given by Maxwell-Boltzman statistical physics linked to the probability of encounter. at 1 bar 120nm
course of the void
http://www.in2p3.fr/actions/formation/T ... 11_def.pdf
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libre_parcours_moyen
basic course:
http://www.lmm.jussieu.fr/~lagree/COURS ... 1_tcin.pdf
http://www.in2p3.fr/actions/formation/M ... arSurf.pdf
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_%C3%A9lectrique
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectro%C3%A9rosion
The difficulty is that the voltage applicable over this distance, similar to vacuum, is very low before breakdown, which for air is 30000V / cm and under vacuum around 25KV / mm. http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/ ... an/arc.htm
http://ms.schneider-electric.be/Main/CT/ct198FR.pdf

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_de_claquage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakdown_voltage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength
Paschen's law
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_de_Paschen
with detailed explanations of the mechanism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_breakdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_chamber

Classes :
http://www.univ-sba.dz/fsi/downloads/ET ... itre_3.pdf
http://www.sefelec.fr/fr/documents/DIEL ... E1_001.pdf

In vacuum there is also a current (the case at short distance below the mean free path):
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89miss ... t_de_champ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_electron_emission
http://www-project.slac.stanford.edu/lc ... fowler.pdf
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=7571024
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigidit%C3 ... 9lectrique
http://www.stielec.ac-aix-marseille.fr/ ... an/arc.htm

It is advantageous to carry out this breakdown very little time (high frequency, and limited current) so as to avoid the destruction of the electrodes by the excessive current in the plasma created which then makes electroerosion, used to machine metals, and even a violent arc even in the void.

To accelerate the H ionized in H2, it is necessary that the emitted electrons bump on these H2 to ionize them in H + which then accelerated by the tension will bump on their target like Ni.
So the distance must be a few average free paths, about ten to adjust (0,1 to a few microns?) To have H + formed and accelerated.
But to put KV on this short distance, is difficult, especially with peak effect of the asperities on the surface, which increase the electric field, except on a time lower than the breakdown time, which breaks while dissipating too much energy, a few tens times the collision time.


A more lively discussion:
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/physi ... cteur.html
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by elephant » 17/12/11, 17:39

I had already been on this site www.in2p3.fr (to download the "review") Very very nice! :D

I'm going to potash a little: we can never be taught nuclear physics enough (must say that if tinkering with electronics and classical mechanics is easy, tinkering with chemistry and nuclear physics is still something else : Cry: )
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