Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)

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ABC2019
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by ABC2019 » 02/11/20, 12:09

eclectron wrote:And I feel all the stronger on this point as there is a host of physicists who ARE PRODUCING RESULTS, THEM, working on the subject of thermal energy collection / thermal agitation.
I could give you links but you don't deserve : Lol:

classic "JOE" method ... I could say it but I'm not saying it because you don't deserve it !!

you also therefore deeply despise all the readers of this thread, whom you do not consider worthy of reading the links which would however prove your statements? : Cry:
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by eclectron » 02/11/20, 12:23

ABC2019 wrote:
eclectron wrote:And I feel all the stronger on this point as there is a host of physicists who ARE PRODUCING RESULTS, THEM, working on the subject of thermal energy collection / thermal agitation.
I could give you links but you don't deserve : Lol:

classic "JOE" method ... I could say it but I'm not saying it because you don't deserve it !!

you also therefore deeply despise all the readers of this thread, whom you do not consider worthy of reading the links which would however prove your statements? : Cry:

My words are logical and normally understandable. If it interested someone other than you and me it would know : Mrgreen:
If someone does not understand what I am saying, let him say it and I will try to explain myself.
with you, practice shows me that it's impossible, that's all.
I don't want to give you a present that you'll throw away under a false pretext. I know you now.
The simple fact that you deny that a resistor is capable of generating useful electrical power shows that you are either not being honest or you are a fool in physics, Barenboim : Mrgreen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson%E ... uist_noise
this is what you do not understand in the equivalent electric models:
Image
is that what you don't understand in "the resulting noise power is given by P = Kb T deltaF"?
OK, kiss : Mrgreen:
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by Remundo » 02/11/20, 12:33

pouted, and what does it give concretely in order of magnitude?

literally second to second.
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by ABC2019 » 02/11/20, 12:40

eclectron wrote:The simple fact that you deny that a resistor is capable of generating useful electrical power shows that you are either not being honest or you are a fool in physics, Barenboim : Mrgreen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson%E ... uist_noise
this is what you do not understand in the equivalent electric models:
Image
is that what you don't understand in "the resulting noise power is given by P = Kb T deltaF"?
OK, kiss : Mrgreen:


I already explained to you that behind "noiseless resistor" (or any component "without noise"), there is implicitly hidden a component at absolute zero, since precisely any component at non-zero temperature has a noise.

So effectively a resistor can supply current to another resistor at absolute zero, except that there is indeed a thermal machine between two temperatures, and the efficiency is also maximum and equal to 1 since T1 = 0 (you see I do the math you refused to do).

And of course that does not violate the second principle, since it is no longer a monothermal machine but a dithermal one, but it is absolutely without interest since it supposes to permanently cool your other resistance to absolute zero (or at least to a temperature lower), but in order to do that it requires you to spend at least as much labor as what you are going to collect.

I've already explained this to you several times, but it's you who doesn't print, it's not me.
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by eclectron » 02/11/20, 13:38

ABC2019 wrote:
I already explained to you that behind "noiseless resistor" (or any component "without noise"), there is implicitly hidden a component at absolute zero, since precisely any component at non-zero temperature has a noise.

So effectively a resistor can supply current to another resistor at absolute zero, except that there is indeed a thermal machine between two temperatures, and the efficiency is also maximum and equal to 1 since T1 = 0 (you see I do the math you refused to do).

And of course that does not violate the second principle, since it is no longer a monothermal machine but a dithermal one, but it is absolutely without interest since it supposes to permanently cool your other resistance to absolute zero (or at least to a temperature lower), but in order to do that it requires you to spend at least as much labor as what you are going to collect.

I've already explained this to you several times, but it's you who doesn't print, it's not me.

Well, it's good you have various and varied notions in physics but things are jostling a bit up there.
Nothing to do with absolute zero Image
it is a simplified and realistic electric model, for simulator or to calculate by hand.
The resistance and the electric generator are separate and constitute a Thévenin generator and therefore an electric generator of useful power of very low value, therefore useless. : Mrgreen:
Good luck, the weather is good, plant a tree! : Lol:
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by ABC2019 » 02/11/20, 14:10

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:
I already explained to you that behind "noiseless resistor" (or any component "without noise"), there is implicitly hidden a component at absolute zero, since precisely any component at non-zero temperature has a noise.

So effectively a resistor can supply current to another resistor at absolute zero, except that there is indeed a thermal machine between two temperatures, and the efficiency is also maximum and equal to 1 since T1 = 0 (you see I do the math you refused to do).

And of course that does not violate the second principle, since it is no longer a monothermal machine but a dithermal one, but it is absolutely without interest since it supposes to permanently cool your other resistance to absolute zero (or at least to a temperature lower), but in order to do that it requires you to spend at least as much labor as what you are going to collect.

I've already explained this to you several times, but it's you who doesn't print, it's not me.

Well, it's good you have various and varied notions in physics but things are jostling a bit up there.
Nothing to do with absolute zero Image

and well yes, that has everything to do, moreover it was also explained in the article that you sent me: the "perfect" components, without noise, "noiseless", are at absolute zero.

Sorry if you can't figure that out, it's true, and posting smilies won't change that.
it is a simplified and realistic electric model, for simulator or to calculate by hand.
The resistance and the electric generator are separate and constitute a Thévenin generator and therefore an electric generator of useful power of very low value, therefore useless. : Mrgreen:
Good luck, the weather is good, plant a tree! : Lol:

the problem is not "the very low value", by accumulating billions of them as can be done in integrated circuits, this power could be increased. The brain is made up of hundreds of billions of neurons which only produce nW. The problem is that you cannot make this thing work at ordinary temperature without cooling one of the components, the useful power is not "of very low value", it is zero, strictly zero, I explained it to you from Anyway, it's not my fault you're obtuse.
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by eclectron » 02/11/20, 15:18

ABC2019 wrote:the "perfect" components, without noise, "noiseless"

Yes, it's a bit like the principle of electrical modeling. Take ideal components, and combine them for so accurately reflect reality.
If you need to think that these components are at absolute zero to be ideal, do not deprive yourself : roll: .
But nothing to do with absolute zero, they are eclectic models, they are conceptualizations, not real components!
Normally it helps to understand but here we are no longer in the "normally", we are close to the 5th dimension! : Lol: : Lol:

Oh yes ImageImageImage

ABC2019 wrote:the problem is not "the very low value", by accumulating billions of them as can be done in integrated circuits, this power could be increased. The brain is made up of hundreds of billions of neurons which only produce nW. The problem is that you cannot make this thing work at ordinary temperature without cooling one of the components, the useful power is not "of very low value", it is zero, strictly zero, I explained it to you from Anyway, it's not my fault you're obtuse.

But of course and this is why P = Kb T non-zero delta F is zero. CQFD, masterful ABC!
You just repeat your mistake from post to post, you don't explain anything at all except your narrow vision.

You have good things all the same, you will not blame me for taking your sentences to my account "it's not my fault if you are obtuse"

I've known some Mexicans but guys so c ..
Good i go out : Mrgreen:
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by ABC2019 » 02/11/20, 16:01

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:the "perfect" components, without noise, "noiseless"

Yes, it's a bit like the principle of electrical modeling. Take ideal components, and combine them for so accurately reflect reality.
If you need to think that these components are at absolute zero to be ideal, do not deprive yourself : roll: .

it is not a "need", it is a physical reality, I am not inventing a personal physics, me.
But nothing to do with absolute zero, they are eclectic models, they are conceptualizations, not real components!
Normally it helps to understand but here we are no longer in the "normally", we are close to the 5th dimension! : Lol: : Lol:

what I'm telling you is that if you want ideal noise-free components, you have to cool them down to absolute zero. In practice this is an ideal limit, but in reality the components are effectively cooled as much as possible to minimize noise.
In practice, a resistance at a temperature T2 will "flow" only in a resistance of temperature T1 <T2, which amounts to an exchange of energy between two sources (obviously the resistance at T2 will tend to cool down to temperature T1 by supplying its power).

All this is perfectly known, coherent, in agreement with all the principles of the thermo, it naturally implies that no power can be used for T1 = T2, and otherwise it is limited by the efficiency of Carnot 1- T1 / T2 - normal since it is a universal return, demonstrated for 200 years.

How many more pages are you going to dispute that?

But of course and this is why P = Kb T non-zero delta F is zero. CQFD, masterful ABC!
You just repeat your mistake from post to post, you don't explain anything at all except your narrow vision.

except I just explained it to you and explained it to you again, and you stubbornly continue to say that I don't explain it. The power you write; it is as the diagram indicates the power output in a component without noise (noiseless) therefore at absolute zero. IF your load is at the same temperature, it will have its own noise and its own voltage fluctuations, and by symmetry of course the power exchanged is zero, how could it pass from one to the other when they are symmetrical and play exactly the same role?

It is completely analogous to a black body which also spontaneously emits energy in the form of photons ... except that in front of another black body at the same temperature, the exchanges are balanced and the balance global is nuL If you put it in front of a black body at a lower temperature, logically the power will be transferred from the hot body to the cold body.

Once again all this is easy to understand, coherent, perfectly in accordance with thermodynamics, I don't know why you don't understand it.


You have good things all the same, you will not blame me for taking your sentences to my account "it's not my fault if you are obtuse"

I've known some Mexicans but guys so c ..
Good i go out : Mrgreen:

Obviously, you can't help but adopt your style of banter for no reason when you are dead wrong. Never mind.
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by eclectron » 02/11/20, 18:41

ABC2019 wrote: it is as the diagram indicates the power output in a component without noise (noiseless) therefore at absolute zero.

I'm going to sneer again but your insistence on bullshit really prompts me.
As in all the subjects where I read you (not much after all) you say true things but they are either irrelevant or used stupidly. -basic principle of the manipulative lobbyist to achieve his ends-

From there to conclude that you lack intelligence there is only one step that I take.
Certainly you do not lack knowledge but you do not know how to use it.
what did you design and achieve in your life?

In electrical modeling, imaginary and ideal components, therefore without noise. Go tell my simulator that it must work at 0 ° K, while the simulation is nevertheless made at 300 ° K. : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
You go from line to line ... even if with this 0 ° K, I understand how you try to hang on to the branches so as not to appear ridiculous.

In electrical models, the noise is modeled by a generator ideal voltage, a white noise generator ....
And if ! we can raise this noise voltage above the noise of the rest of the circuit, without being at 0 ° K. I know how to do it !
It suffices to use reactive components (low R therefore low noise ...)
So as I unfortunately know you by heart and as soon as you see the word "reactive" you will say "zero power !!!" I anticipate the answer:
So no, it is quite possible to use reactive voltage or current to make voltage or current. active.
Switching power supplies do this all day long.

Please, stop insulting the physics that I hold in very high regard and please shut down.
If we listen to you, nothing works in the world:

Your computer, which uses a converter which itself uses reactive energy, therefore cannot work! (false since everyone can see all these devices that work)
EDF is working for nothing because the average voltage in the sector is zero. (true but stupid, we must consider the effective voltage)
The instantaneous temperature of anything is strictly stable, no thermal agitation of electrons. as the temperature is unique and strictly stable, even in instant, we can't get any work out of it.
Moreover, the noise power of the resistors, which is not zero, is ultimately zero. dixit AVC. (narrow and biased view of reality therefore false)
I know all of your arguments from M ..., unlike you who don't hear mine and therefore don't understand them.
Buy yourself a brain please or get some ginkgo but do something please! : Evil:
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Re: Nikola Tesla's excess energy? (Christophe Tetard)




by ABC2019 » 02/11/20, 19:29

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote: it is as the diagram indicates the power output in a component without noise (noiseless) therefore at absolute zero.

I'm going to sneer again but your insistence on bullshit really prompts me.
As in all the subjects where I read you (not much after all) you say true things but they are either irrelevant or used stupidly. -basic principle of the manipulative lobbyist to achieve his ends-

From there to conclude that you lack intelligence there is only one step that I take.
Certainly you do not lack knowledge but you do not know how to use it.
what did you design and achieve in your life?

if you were in a real scientific discussion, you would do without these insults which add nothing to the debate.


In electrical modeling, imaginary and ideal components, therefore without noise. Go tell my simulator that it must work at 0 ° K, while the simulation is nevertheless made at 300 ° K. : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
You go from line to line ... even if with this 0 ° K, I understand how you try to hang on to the branches so as not to appear ridiculous.

In electrical models, the noise is modeled by a generator ideal voltage, a white noise generator ....
And if ! we can raise this noise voltage above the noise of the rest of the circuit, without being at 0 ° K. I know how to do it !
It suffices to use reactive components (low R therefore low noise ...)
So as I unfortunately know you by heart and as soon as you see the word "reactive" you will say "zero power !!!" I anticipate the answer:
So no, it is quite possible to use reactive voltage or current to make voltage or current. active.
Switching power supplies do this all day long.

Please, stop insulting the physics that I hold in very high regard and please shut down.
If we listen to you, nothing works in the world:

you mix everything up, I'm not talking about a voltage generator that works with an external energy source, I'm talking about thermal fluctuations.

And I'm telling you, you can imagine whatever you want in your simulations, but in reality ALL finite temperature components have random voltage fluctuations, so ideal "noiseless" components are in fact absolute zero components.

Just because you don't put a temperature in your simulation doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And the worst of all is that you have YOU EVEN given me a reference: https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.5942
who says exactly the same as me !!!
page 13 - 14
Thus, equations 17-21 and the enhanced properties of the coherent engines are valid only with
idealistic switches and wires that have zero thermal noise. This condition is satisfied only at absolute zero temperature, TS, W = 0 Kelvin.


do you understand english, or do you need a translation?

and after

This is an indication that, when the coherence is introduced with the assumed properties, a new, hidden thermal reservoir around the wire connections is implicitly introduced and that takes over the role of the cold sink during the coherent stroke. In this way, Carnot's work and efficiency are restored and the Second Law is satisfied.


again, do you need a translation?

Your computer, which uses a converter which itself uses reactive energy, therefore cannot work! (false since everyone can see all these devices that work)
EDF is working for nothing because the average voltage in the sector is zero. (true but stupid, we must consider the effective voltage)
The instantaneous temperature of anything is strictly stable, no thermal agitation of electrons. as the temperature is unique and strictly stable, even in instant, we can't get any work out of it.
Moreover, the noise power of the resistors, which is not zero, is ultimately zero. dixit AVC. (narrow and biased view of reality therefore false)
I know all of your arguments from M ..., unlike you who don't hear mine and therefore don't understand them.
Buy yourself a brain please or get some ginkgo but do something please! : Evil:


good listen, then since obviously the arguments of physics, nor even the references that you give me yourself, have no impact on you, I'll suggest something else.

We are going to play a game: I send you my RIB, and you pay me a sum M every year. And the day when someone measures a power delivered by a monothermal resistor, and publishes it, I will give you back double the sums you gave me. A little power of nothing at all, even puillemes of nW if you will, but a non-zero power. I'm just asking you to send me the publication where it's described, and if it's in a regular peer-reviewed physics journal, I promise I'll pay you back.

Do we do it like that then? I let you choose the sum M, I accept all the proposals. Isn't that fair?
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