Liquid nitrogen generator engine

[Eric DUPONT]

https://www.tradingsat.com/edf-FR001024 ... 39613.html


currently edf is obliged to sell a quarter of its production at a price of 42 euros per mWh, which only indebts it and prevents it from investing in the energy transition: storage of liquid nitrogen energy for example. with this reform let us admit that the price of electricity passes to 55 euros per MWH and that at the same time the photovoltaic plants on the ground manage to produce for 40 euros per MWH or rather in less than 5 years. IF many ground-based plants are built, the price of energy in the spot market when it is sunny will remain low, lower than the prices in the photovoltaic market. Unless we are able to store energy, in this case an industrialist buys electricity when its price is at its lowest: 30 euros per Mwh and resells it when its price is at its highest: 60 euros per MWh . We can see that the 4 components for a successful energy transition are: an increase in wholesale energy prices by EDF as it will occur from 42 euros per MWh to ..., a decrease in the price of kwh of large ground-based power plants as it happens every year to arrive at less than 30 euros per MWh according to forecasts, large storage capacities which allow manufacturers to buy energy at its lowest, or even to consume it (4 rd component), to store it and resell it on the electricity market when its price is at its highest. To which I can add a fifth component, public pressure to accelerate the energy transition by investing in what has the most chance of success.

[Remundo]

Certainly Eric, there is no doubt that high-performance, high-capacity storage is a major technical and financial asset for a regulator like RTE / EDF.

It remains to do, what am I saying, to invent it, this storage.

[Eric DUPONT]

uh ??? why only for RTE or EDF? if there is only EDF or RTE which has the right to store energy, it does not make sense. Suppose I have a 1 MW energy storage system on the shelf, only RTE and EDF would have the right to use it? it would be stupid

[Remundo]

1 MW or 1 MWh? it does not weigh heavily on the national network anyway.

good basically, in self-consumption you can do what you want by taking a withdrawal subscription preferably.

The concern is that there are laws, of which I am not a specialist, but in summary EDF / RTE / Enedis and others are always reluctant to have you injecting current into its network, everything is contractual is fine " stilted "depending on the mode of production and the power subscribed, and sometimes even finer things such as variable prices depending on the hours etc ...

you can find it "stupid", but it's called a state monopoly, and as our leaders are rather "stupid" in their majority (in reality incompetent guided by the big bucks), everything becomes coherent.

I've told you 10 times: work on your prototype, and maybe the bigwigs in the sector will raise an eyelid on your device.

As a first approach, you should rather aim for a domestic market because many customers go into self-consumption with zero injection. At the moment they use batteries, but if your machine is better, there is already a significant market in this sector.

[Eric DUPONT]

I am willing to believe that enedis will not want me to store the energy from edf to restore it when they cannot produce in sufficient quantity ... and if I install my 1 MW storage system in Spain, the fluctuations seem more important, would this prevent Spain from importing energy when their photovoltaic plants are at a standstill? to develop my product, I need a market, the private market is complicated, it takes a lot more resources and money.

[ENERC]

I am willing to believe that enedis will not want me to store the energy from edf to restore it when they cannot produce in sufficient quantity ... and if I install my 1 MW storage system in Spain, the fluctuations seem more important, would this prevent Spain from importing energy when their photovoltaic plants are at a standstill? to develop my product, I need a market, the private market is complicated, it takes a lot more resources and money.

If you have a liquid nitrogen storage of 20 kWh available which draws 6 KW in charge and supplies 5 kW max in discharge for 2000-2500 €, I will buy it from you.
The compressor must operate between say 500 W and 6 kW to adapt to solar production.

The competition with LifePO4 is 113 € per kWh excluding electronics (for example https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 43518PyX5z). You take 80% of the capacity and add 20% VAT.
Between battery and liquid nitrogen I would take nitrogen which is less polluting.

Go to the site https://diysolarforum.com, you'll see that personal storage is booming.

[sicetaitsimple]

If you have a liquid nitrogen storage of 20 kWh available which draws 6 KW in charge and supplies 5 kW max in discharge for 2000-2500 €, I will buy it from you.

Do you want to kill him, our E. Dupont?

[ENERC]

If you have a liquid nitrogen storage of 20 kWh available which draws 6 KW in charge and supplies 5 kW max in discharge for 2000-2500 €, I will buy it from you.

Do you want to kill him, our E. Dupont?

No, quite the contrary.
The economic calculation is simple: take the example of a 6 KWp solar installation with an annual consumption of 6 MWh. Let us take a self-consumption rate of 40% without batteries and 90% with the storage of E. Dupont. This in Brittany for example (1kWh / Wp / year).
Case without battery:
- I buy 60% of my energy -> 720 € (I rounded up to 0,2 € per kWh)
- sells the 60% at 6ct to Enercoop -> 216 € of income [as it exceeds 3KW no subsidized contract possible at 10 ct]
Annual cost 504 €

With storage:
- I buy 10% of my energy -> 120 €
- sells it 10% at 6ct to Enercoop -> 36 € of receipts
Annual cost 84 €

If my storage costs € 2500, I need 6 years to amortize it (2500 / (504-84)).

So like Remundo, I think it's a really big market. The advantage is that we can now position ourselves on low volumes and that it will gradually increase to reach a few billion € per year in the years to come (in Europe alone).
1 billion is only 500 units at € 000 each. We will be well above for storage.

It is also easier to design a 5kW machine with a 100 L nitrogen container than to build a plant in the MW unit. And it can work commercially if it comes in the nails at the price level.
It doesn't seem to me that it takes astronomical sums to make a prototype. The hardest part is surely to find a box to machine the parts.

[sicetaitsimple]

So like Remundo, I think it's a really big market. The advantage is that we can now position ourselves on low volumes and that it will gradually increase to reach a few billion € per year in the years to come (in Europe alone).
1 billion is only 500 units at € 000 each. We will be well above for storage.

Ah, it seems that the evocation of a market of a few billion € made the heart start again!

But 2000/2500 € that seems ambitious to me. Moreover, the system should be extremely flexible in terms of charge / discharge power, which is not the main quality of cryogenic processes.

[Forhorse]

In any case, the storage of energy is a major current and future issue.
If you offer EDF a cheaper solution that is as flexible as a WWTP, they won't have any difficulty in buying / selling electricity in large volumes. Don't worry. But for that you have to present them with something other than 10 years of blah ...