Machines on numeraries true or intox ??

Innovations, ideas or patents for sustainable development. Decrease in energy consumption, reduction of pollution, improvement of yields or processes ... Myths or reality about inventions of the past or the future: the inventions of Tesla, Newman, Perendev, Galey, Bearden, cold fusion ...
Ahmed
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Re: Machines on real cash or intox ??




by Ahmed » 24/02/18, 20:50

Yes, but where?

Since, according to your reasoning, it is possible to reinject upstream, then why not push the logic further, which shows you immediately that infinite energy arises from nowhere ... By regressing in the other direction, From this observation, you quickly conclude that what is not true after x loops is not true after a single ... : Wink:
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Re: boost the COP of a heat pump




by BaudouinLabrique » 25/02/18, 08:41

sicetaitsimple wrote:
BaudouinLabrique wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:I love the "reminder"!
Well calculate for yourself, I don't have the items!

What elements do you need to do the calculation?
NB I will not be able to answer your future messages before tomorrow noon

Ah well, then! Not before noon tomorrow? It's nice to give me 16:00 p.m. to answer you!
No, it's up to you to do the math, you are never more convinced than when you put your hands in the grease.

Now I still find a little time to post.
My prose certainly did not mean that you had until 16 p.m. to answer me! You must know how to read me
and don't make me a lawsuit!
sicetaitsimple wrote:So calculate the temperature rise of your brine if you heat it with a power of one kW, you will tell us after.

I thought that given your concrete claims and assertions, you could have done it ...

For my part, I do not see how to do it because I am not well versed in thermodynamics ...
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Re: boost the COP of a heat pump




by sicetaitsimple » 25/02/18, 09:46

BaudouinLabrique wrote:
For my part, I do not see how to do it because I am not well versed in thermodynamics ...


First of all, I am correcting a small mistake made above when I was writing "If today your heating needs are for example 6kW with a COP of 3, you extract 4,5kW from your soil and consume 1,5kW of electricity. ". It is 4kW extracted from the ground and 2 from electricity.

If you don't know, it's annoying. Do you know the flow rate of the brine loop? And just to check, its temperature entering and leaving the heat pump at the moment?
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Re: boost the COP of a heat pump




by BaudouinLabrique » 25/02/18, 12:46

sicetaitsimple wrote:
BaudouinLabrique wrote:
For my part, I do not see how to do it because I am not well versed in thermodynamics ...


First of all, I am correcting a small mistake made above when I was writing "If today your heating needs are for example 6kW with a COP of 3, you extract 4,5kW from your soil and consume 1,5kW of electricity. ". It is 4kW extracted from the ground and 2 from electricity.

If you don't know, it's annoying. Do you know the flow rate of the brine loop? And just to check, its temperature entering and leaving the heat pump at the moment?

Characteristics of the brine circuit

- flow rate: between 800 and 1.500 l / h (all the water stored in the soil is then used a little more than once per hour) and therefore 13 to 25 l / minute
- pressure: from 1 to 1,5 bar
- pipe diameter: inside: 2,5cm / outside: 3cm

Temperature :
* heat pump outlet: 45 °
* brine entry: 0 °
Last edited by BaudouinLabrique the 25 / 02 / 18, 13: 01, 1 edited once.
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«There are those who see things as they are and wonder why. Me, I see them as they could be and I say to myself: why not! (Sir Bernard Shaw)
« The future belongs to those who see the possibilities before they become obvious. (Theodore Levitt).
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Re: boost the COP of a heat pump




by sicetaitsimple » 25/02/18, 12:55

BaudouinLabrique wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:
If you don't know, it's annoying. Do you know the flow rate of the brine loop? And just to check, its temperature entering and leaving the heat pump at the moment?

Characteristics of the brine circuit

- flow rate: between 800 and 1.500 l / h (all the water stored in the soil is then used a little more than once per hour) and therefore 13 to 25 l / minute


Is the flow variable? You have an idea at the moment, the control panel gives the value (it should be maximum).

And heat pump inlet and outlet temperatures on the brine side at this time?
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Re: boost the COP of a heat pump




by BaudouinLabrique » 25/02/18, 13:04

sicetaitsimple wrote:
BaudouinLabrique wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:
If you don't know, it's annoying. Do you know the flow rate of the brine loop? And just to check, its temperature entering and leaving the heat pump at the moment?

Characteristics of the brine circuit

- flow rate: between 800 and 1.500 l / h (all the water stored in the soil is then used a little more than once per hour) and therefore 13 to 25 l / minute


Is the flow variable? You have an idea at the moment, the control panel gives the value (it should be maximum).

And heat pump inlet and outlet temperatures on the brine side at this time?


I put here the different parameters:

Regarding my CAP, I get the following COPs (last readings on the CAP on-board computer),
about:

- 7,2 (16 kWh) (21 ° glycol water)
- 6,8 (15 kWh) (… 19 °)
- 6,3 (14 kWh) (… 17 °)
- 5,9 (13 kWh) (… 15 ° or 14 °)
- 5,4 (12 kWh) (… 13 °)
- 5 (11 kWh) (… 12 ° or 11 °)
- 4.5 (9 kWh) (… 11 °, 10 ° or 9 °)
- 4 (9 kWh) (… 7 °)
- 3,7 (8 kWh) (… 5, 4 ° or 3 °)
- 3,2 (7 kWh) (… 2 °, 1 ° or -0 °)


Characteristics of the brine circuit

- flow rate (not variable): between 800 and 1.500 l / h (all the water stored in the soil is then used a little more than once per hour) and therefore 13 to 25 l / minute
- pressure: from 1 to 1,5 bar
- pipe diameter: inside: 2,5cm / outside: 3cm

Current temperatures:

* heat pump outlet: 45 °
* brine entry: 0 °

Thank you for your help !
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Re: Machines on real cash or intox ??




by sicetaitsimple » 25/02/18, 13:12

It is complicated! I repeat:

- brine input 0 ° C, OK.
- brine outlet temperature? Do you have it or not at this moment?
- "variable" brine flow rate: you have it or not at this moment?
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Re: Machines on real cash or intox ??




by BaudouinLabrique » 25/02/18, 14:04

sicetaitsimple wrote:It is complicated! I repeat:

-
sicetaitsimple wrote: brine input 0 ° C, OK.

-
sicetaitsimple wrote:brine outlet temperature? Do you have it or not at this moment?

it is zero

sicetaitsimple wrote:- "variable" brine flow rate: you have it or not at this moment?

the flow is not variable (it is a pump which works without its speed being changed)
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«There are those who see things as they are and wonder why. Me, I see them as they could be and I say to myself: why not! (Sir Bernard Shaw)
« The future belongs to those who see the possibilities before they become obvious. (Theodore Levitt).
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Re: Machines on real cash or intox ??




by sicetaitsimple » 25/02/18, 14:14

BaudouinLabrique wrote:
sicetaitsimple wrote:It is complicated! I repeat:

-
sicetaitsimple wrote: brine input 0 ° C, OK.

-
sicetaitsimple wrote:brine outlet temperature? Do you have it or not at this moment?

it is zero

sicetaitsimple wrote:- "variable" brine flow rate: you have it or not at this moment?

the flow is not variable (it is a pump which works without its speed being changed)


Ah, it's magic! The inlet temperature is 0 ° C and the outlet temperature too. If that's correct, the COP is 1 right now and you're heating up with electricity .....
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Re: Machines on real cash or intox ??




by BaudouinLabrique » 25/02/18, 15:21

sicetaitsimple wrote:Ah, it's magic! The inlet temperature is 0 ° C and the outlet temperature too. If that's correct, the COP is 1 right now and you're heating up with electricity .....


The outlet temperature is 45 ° (and therefore not 0 °), I had indeed indicated:
BaudouinLabrique wrote:* PAC output : 45 °
* brine entry: 0 °
[/at]


According to the statements made (see post before), the COP is 3,2 !
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«There are those who see things as they are and wonder why. Me, I see them as they could be and I say to myself: why not! (Sir Bernard Shaw)
« The future belongs to those who see the possibilities before they become obvious. (Theodore Levitt).

 


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