unifying theory: Pantone, Vortex and planet Earth

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 07/10/06, 15:48

To refocus the subject ...
I thank crispus for his subject on quanthomme and the link in pdf on this post.
The news of quanthomme is not easy to print, it will be necessary to speak about it to Jean or Bernadette ... It is at this moment my bedside book ...

It is interesting to see a vortex approach in the reactor. In fact, this is not generally tackled on the pantonne realizations whereas chambrin had a similar architecture (tangential and non-axial arrival) and that we find this arrangement in joseph haiun's thermokinetic compressor.

I think that magnets can not bring anything more (if not to disturb it) to a pantone which generates itself its magnetic field. If you have any comments ...
The electrostatic and ionization approach with AVEC is innovative, I often ask myself the question whether the meaning of the vortex has any importance (like coriolis effect)?
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by lio74 » 07/10/06, 16:54

Hi everybody!
this is an interesting subject! : Cheesy: :D
I have more internet at home and suddenly I take 10 hours of reading each week to try to keep myself informed ...

so I'm going to try to be synthetic and react to the previous posts:

citro wrote:To refocus the subject ...
I thank crispus for his subject on quanthomme and the link in pdf on this post.
......
The electrostatic and ionization approach with AVEC is innovative, I often ask myself the question whether the meaning of the vortex has any importance (like coriolis effect)?


it is clear that there is drift on the subject :P

houlala another question with a lot of gray areas, it put me in the wall more than once on exos of mechanics this damn Coriolis : Lol:

cripus:
first of all thank you for sharing your theories with us :!:
I am sure on a lot of points and lines of thought, but as I am a mechanic ... I am a little angry with the electric ... :?
as you say for me the hairspring is induced by the force of Lapace ... but the friend Lorentz ... I do not remember too ... in short very interesting and I must reread well.
a simulator of mecha flu could be very useful but should you know and have the fluid and flow model ... it is not a single homogeneous gas which moves in the reactor and in addition it must change density and special heat .... not all that easy!

lusitano:
it was already done to impose the input movement, with a turbulator at the entrance of the pantone and even Lau on his toyota with a pantone that works rather well, tried a drill rod !!! no noticeable improvement ... :?

bob isat:
Doesn't that remind you of things? on a post on the turbulator in April May .... and the friend FR'ANSYS : Lol:
I agree with you : do not confuse vortex flow (spiral) and turbulent flow... that said we still see marks of turns on the rods which have a good functioning ... then from there to say: there is absolutely NO REASON that the path of the particles in the reactor takes place in a spiral I find that you are going a little fast ... there is also that according to the assembly the Rebrolds nbr is laminar / turbulent limit ...
otherwise I am not ready to make a reason and say that the pantone is doomed to DIY .... it's been almost a year that I am on technology watch on the pantone and I still miss the practice ... but I feed my scientific background while I can ... bac +1 ... it's starting to do but it's still not enough ... I still haven't posted on this subject until I'm sure to attack an instrument bank ... and it's not yet tomorrow the day before : Cry:

André:
thank you for the info on the vacuum cleaner, the entry angle between the arrival of the buller and the reactor .... to see and simulate ... one more track : Cheesy:
otherwise it is true that we tear our hair out to find out what is going on in this reactor .... but what is happening right down to the combustion chamber ...

@ +++ eco-surfers!
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by elephant » 07/10/06, 22:02

excuse me for afire in the simplistic, even in the simplissime, if not in the caricatural:

what do you do with your coffee in the morning?

same thing in a cylinder of engine: there is a mass of air which arrives, there is a mass of fuel which arrives.
both are at different densities and temperatures.
they only have a few milliseconds to brew
anything you can do to mix them will improve combustion.
I remember that even in the early 70s, BMW was already talking about the turbulent intake in the cylinder head!
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by crispus » 10/10/06, 11:12

Hello everyone !

I finally gave myself some time to rest and I even returned to sleep. It's better…

I reread my document and my messages on this subject forum.
Forgive me for appearing here in the form of a hallucinating prophet of the Ionic Vortex! My provocative remarks and my insomniac susceptibility earned me a well deserved hazing!

I did not expect to cause such an uproar by mentioning the possibility of a thermomechanical conversion on - half unit! If strictly speaking I had spoken of an "on-Ummite-air" process then I would have understood : Lol: .


I forgot a little quickly that I myself took 5 years to admit that the Pantone reactor was not a hoax ... It always takes time to build an idea. But once admitted that the famous tractor n ° 22 of "Mr G" is not a "rural legend", we are entitled to ask questions about the conditions of validity of laws yet called "fundamental" of mechanics .

In fact, my sudden passion for energy only goes back a year, and, entangled between excited students and a large family, I didn't really care about the vortex 3 months ago…

It was only by seeing for myself (in July) the effectiveness of a simple sheet metal VSD on my car, that I seriously questioned the role of ions in my engine. The bob_isat documents then showed me that the Pantone reactor used ionized water vapor. It was the click that launched me (in August) on the trail of the ionized vortex.

The night of September 13th, I couldn't sleep, and instead of doing like everyone else and counting the sheep over the barrier, I imagined ions rotating around a magnetic core. To determine what was happening to them I mentally applied the 3 finger rule. And that's when I had the click of the ion separation.

Impossible to sleep after that, since I wanted to know the rest of the history of rotating ions…
I wrote - and above all drew - most of this document in one night - without vision of the angel Gabriel or of extraterrestrials, sorry for the poverty of the paranormal aspect - and I completed it in the 3 following days before sending it to Quanthomme. This explains the sloppy and sometimes provocative look of this text ...

I had the feeling of crossing the trail of the “energetic Grail”, and I told myself that if I died before I could tell what I had designed, I would not be doing my contemporaries a service. I also thought that it was so simple, that it was likely that others were working in secret on the same basis, in order to patent products at high prices on this principle, making them inaccessible to the majority… Hence my decision to publish this text as quickly as possible under copyleft, although in a theoretical state.

I still remember that if I was right, this theory opens the door to a new generation of economical, efficient and royalty-free thermoconverters. For example :

- powerful thermomagnets (interesting for lovers of MHD propulsion;)),
- direct current thermogenerator: no more alternator, and the door open to hybrid vehicles like “Pantone burner + electric motors” with various and varied fuels,
- air fresheners by “molecular breakdown” of atmospheric pollutants and catalytic recombination.
- and why not soften seawater?

In short, there is work for everyone! Neither engineers nor technicians on the sidelines…

My scientific and technological culture - already insufficient at the base - has not improved in my professional practice, the perilous exercise of pedagogy having taken precedence over experimentation. My gross ignorance in fluid mechanics did not (fortunately) "teach me that it was impossible", but did not help me build a serious model, and I understand the merits of the indignant reactions on this forum.

I put back on the job my calamitous image of “ionic spiral”, which of course is not unique, but made up of a multitude of overlapping spirals… This slightly reduces energy efficiency, but does not put it back question the interest of the process.

Another meaculpa: my model cannot be considered as an almost perfect thermomechanical converter, since even if it allows to model the vortex like a flywheel, there is no possibility of recovering kinetic energy without friction . I should have left it at my game and talked about an “optimized thermoelectromagnetic converter”… No hard feelings, mechanics?

By publishing my text, I was not trying to shine: I also chose anonymity. My wish also remains to "pass the virus" to others more competent, and give thesis ideas to promising young physicists, in order to free my mind to devote myself to realization rather than calculation. Frankly, the thought of reconnecting with my student nightmares, drowned in his Maxwell equations, does not enchant me ... If I had to invest myself intellectually, I would prefer to do it in other areas such as ancient languages ​​...

I do not know about you, but I am terrified that the Nobel Prize in physics is awarded to those who have drawn the "robot portrait of the big bang", rather than to those (it must exist?) Who seek to prevent the short term “big grill” to which our planet is promised.

And given the reactions of members of the forum, I realize the magnitude of the task, and the need for a multidisciplinary team - and above all communicating! - to study this damn ion vortex: fluid mechanics, electronics and chemistry among others:
- What are the optimal conditions for the fluid to rotate before ion separation? (Mech)
- How to determine the intensity of the electromagnetic field? (Elec)
- What electric field can lead to the dissociation of water molecules? (chemistry)
etc.

Here is.
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by bob_isat » 10/10/06, 12:20

lio74 wrote:for bob isat:
Doesn't that remind you of things? on a post on the turbulator in April May .... and the friend FR'ANSYS : Lol:
I agree with you : do not confuse vortex flow (spiral) and turbulent flow... that said we still see marks of turns on the rods which have a good functioning ... then from there to say: there is absolutely NO REASON that the path of the particles in the reactor takes place in a spiral I think you're going a bit fast


the coil marks on the rod were identified by christophe as being the result of the machining of the rod (rod made on a lathe)

for crispus:

(sorry for the ummites but we must be careful on a subject already widely regarded as esoteric and whimsical by all of society)

it is impossible to understand the action of GEET gas in the engine since we do not know what GEET gas is.
We already know that it is a product made from water.
the first question to raise is therefore: 'what is gas geet?' (water doping).

To answer the question, you have to grope and try to characterize it (measure its density, its electrical charge ...) after you can make lots of theories about its formation in the reactor.

to validate or invalidate the (theories) we can vary the parameters identified as determinants in the theory and see if this has an influence on the engine.

For the moment, my theory on the electrification of water vapor identified the pH as determining for the charge of the gas geet and André rightly noted an improvement by adding a little vinegar in the water of the bubbler. Finally I say that I say nothing ...

I suggest that we keep all the theories that we have in stock for the moment and that we try to dismantle them one by one EXPERIMENTALLY.

the theory that survives can be admitted until it is brought down. (this is how man has always done, for unknown phenomena, whether it is the position of the earth in the universe, its roundness or other)

Do you have any ideas to attack existing theories? (to arms!)
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zac
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by zac » 10/10/06, 17:16

bob_isat wrote:We already know that it is a product made from water.


Hello

the more I get doping up with water (so the more I do sav), the less I am sure that it is a "product of water"; it enters the process, it is certain but I am not sure it is essential.
or at a very low dose 2 or 3/100.
@+
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by Woodcutter » 10/10/06, 22:18

Crispus wrote:[...] If in a pinch I had spoken of process "on-Ummite-air" there I would have understood : Lol: [...]
Hi, hi, hi! : Lol:

Not bad at all... : Wink:
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by elephant » 11/10/06, 00:03

courage, dear crispus, courage.

esssais, there is only that true.
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by Other » 11/10/06, 00:28

Hello

elephant wrote:.

esssais, there is only that true.


And again, before trying anything you need a track of something theoretical, or a clue of something,
This year I tried nickel and inconel metal hard to find in small round bar of 12,7 mm then nickel mesh ect .. all that we can read on the net, results a lot of displacement and research and energy to bring me what? I have learned but it is not this kind of learning that I am looking for, it just delayed me on other ways of trying.
When we try according to the duration of the test we must above all, know how to analyze the results with fairly rudimentary measures and try to understand what such a change has brought and pay attention to the interpretations that distort us all reasonally rational, also pay attention to the convictions that make us blind and stubborn, sometimes we find things that do not correspond with what we are taught.


hi Zac

the more I get doping up with water (so the more I do sav), the less I am sure that it is a "product of water"; it enters the process, it is certain but I am not sure it is essential.
or at a very low dose 2 or 3/100

you drastically decrease your water consumption, you get closer to
of the Viks assembly (for consumption) does that mean that the water contained in a breather or in the exhaust gas from the ERG valve is almost sufficient? I'll know this this winter my big engine will only work with the water produced by the crankcase!

the coil marks on the rod were identified by christophe as being the result of the machining of the rod (rod made on a lathe)

Practically impossible that these traces come from a lathe, all those who have manipulated a lathe will be able to confirm it would be necessary to make a big advance on the carriage to make a propeller which far exceeds the pitch known threads, Normally in the manufacturing process of these rods it does not pass on a lathe, but in a grinding machine, for polished machined rods.
The posibility is a straightening operation with 3 angle rollers that we use in the industry for precision round rods, in some cases I took the trouble to polish the rod with sandpaper, but we can not say beyond all doubt that these marks do not come from a rectifier by a local hardening which would resort to heat? One thing is sure, the pitch of this spiral always corresponds to the radius of the rod
whether in steel or stainless steel and the direction of rotation is always the same.

Image

How do you call these marks on a 316 stainless steel rod? after only a few hours of running on a loaded engine,


Andre
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by Capt_Maloche » 11/10/06, 10:14

Hi crispus,

your document, which I still have to analyze in depth, is full of good ideas and goes in the direction of my reflections on the virtues of ionized fluids,

In my opinion, this is the solution to which I intend to begin my experiments, starting with the ionization of water by electric fields.

the click came to me when reviewing this little test on static electricity
http://www2.fsg.ulaval.ca/opus/scphys4/ ... Pola.shtml

Of course, this will require extensive training in the field of electromagnetism in static mode
HERE
and then moving 8)
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