The operation of the water doping: chart?

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
bolt
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
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Registration: 01/02/06, 20:44
Location: Pas-de-Calais




by bolt » 11/02/07, 00:21

Andre wrote:I think it's the opposite, in a diesel full-load diesel l injection is in a very short time and it is not the lack of air that makes it smokes, but the amount of diesel that must cross a flame front to find a way to find air back


Hello André
there are many older diesel engines whose injection pump has finished injecting to minus 10 ° before the PMH (actual example pump in line: full load injection of minus 24 ° minus 12 ° before PMH) in this case, at -20 ° before PMH, there may not have been a start of combustion yet.

Andre wrote:While at mid speed the engine is softer in function and that the dose of water does not save much on performance.

you mean at half load: in this case, the combustion T ° is undoubtedly lower than the "supposed cracking" T °

To come back to my reasoning,
the heat of vaporization of the water corresponds to approx 537 calories / g:
it makes an extraordinary regulator, for example, when one boils a pot of water: as long as there is water between the noodles, they remain at 100 ° C, after the temperature rise and goodbye the meal

can we transpose the "latent heat of vaporization" liquid water with the "latent heat of cracking" water already in dry steamImage
if the vaporisation of the liquid water is necessarily under the 374 ° C, (under 220 bar), that means that an excess of water would prevent combustion from exceeding these 374 ° C:
no interest

if the cracking of the water vapor is going to 1500 ° C, it is much more interesting as T ° of regulation of combustion:
and the lost energy of the cracking (less interesting near the PMH) is necessarily recovered well before the exit to the exhaust, since the T ° ech reaches with difficulty the 800 ° C

if too much delay in the injection easily unburned, it would be enough to put more advance, knowing that an injection of steam would prevent the rise in T ° of combustion at the PMH, and automatically maintain the best compromise then:
automatic chart optimization :P
Image

Does somebody know :
the temperature of cracking of the water according to the pressure :?:
the latent heat of cracking (how many calories / g) in heat equivalent :?:

if the yield is optimized by this principle, I do not take into account the ionizing effect or pantone effect.

is the pantone effect to make the T ° of cracking steam at the right T ° (which may not be in my presentation: taken at random at 1500 ° C) :?:

bolt
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Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
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by Other » 11/02/07, 02:31

Hello Bolt
Andre wrote:

While at mid speed the engine is softer in function and that the dose of water does not save much on performance.

you mean at half load: in this case, the combustion T ° is undoubtedly lower than the assumed cracking T °
"

I mean to couple diet and low load
the advance has remained at its position for these RPM, but the duration of injection is in a narrower angle (little diesel) so we avoid this combustion pick that causes the pressure to rise sharply, which gives us a motor cycle. explosion.
we have every interest in having as little pressure as possible
which tends to absorb energy (a bit like an explosion engine that self ignites,) but for reasons of air temperature in the room with the diesel must be injected when the temperature of the compressed air has reached a 500c has 600c and this can only be at the end of compression the injection lasts only a few milliseconds, I do not think that the flame front is as important as in an explosion that can reach 37 meter second on average with, the slow and the final on the walls that reduce, it gives an 15 meters seconds, in the diesel these figures are significantly lower, it means that at a speed of 3000 rpm and more combustion is done on a downward part of the piston a room that increases in volume ..
It is known that the rate of combustion depends on the fuel, the thermal conductivity and the specific heat of the gaseous mass
The water vapor introduced into the engine should modify the thermal conductivity and the specific heat of the mixture, it should also lower the temperature at the moment of the flame to give a more spreading pressure in the descent of the piston
the energy that it absorbed piston up reduced the shock (diesel) and restores it downhill, to give it a true diesel function.

I think we are going to look for very complicated functional hypotheses on the role of water, but it must be probably simple passages of different states of water with absorption and energy restitution.
We see that if we replace the water with alcohol (except that it is a fuel that the gain in a motor with exposure is worse than with water) because the specific heat and the power absorption of alcohol is far back from the water.
I have never considered water as a fuel (despite the fact that it is oxygen and hydrogen) water for me is nothing but a vehicle heat, it is taken on the Exhaust and it is transposed in the working cycle .. and its limit in quantity in the engine is simply related that it does not nuisse to the flame front at the moment of the combustion.
It's just a hypothesis to my way of perceiving, but it's hard to know what's going on inside the engine. the only thing that we know is the remarks of the different experiments I am convinced that we will not be able to exceed a gain of 50% consomation for that it should look for the 30% of loss in the exhaust and a part in the cooling water.

Andre
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laurent.delaon
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 168
Registration: 13/08/05, 17:49




by laurent.delaon » 11/02/07, 12:04

you mean at half load: in this case, the combustion T ° is undoubtedly lower than the "supposed cracking" T °


it makes an extraordinary regulator, for example, when one boils a pot of water: as long as there is water between the noodles, they remain at 100 ° C, after the temperature rise and goodbye the meal


the reactor is also boiling noodles (but not the same) ...

can we transpose the "latent heat of vaporization" liquid water with the "latent heat of cracking" water already in steam

no because it is not the water that is cracked (see the calculation of cristophe which proves me: the water does not bring enough hydrogen) on the other hand with the diesel there is enough hydrogen brought.

if the cracking of the water vapor is going to 1500 ° C, it is much more interesting as T ° of regulation of combustion:


no it is not water that is crackee but the diesel that is vapo cracked is not the same ....


Does somebody know :
the temperature of cracking of the water according to the pressure :?:
the latent heat of cracking (how many calories / g) in heat equivalent :?:

if the yield is optimized by this principle, I do not take into account the ionizing effect or pantone effect.

no it is logical and it is a good thing not to take into account the tepid piece of feraille ...

is the pantone effect to make the T ° of cracking steam at the right T ° (which may not be in my presentation: taken at random at 1500 ° C) :?:


the effect of the pantone and create a collective illusion on a piece of soft iron that masks the reality of things that take place logically much more in high pressure and high temperature 80bar 800 ° C in the combustion chamber.
also the principle, which I invented, of direct steam injection
With a micro boiler is much more realistic and logical (and much simpler) than anything that has been done so far.
Extraction can be considered direct injection by spraying (what Clerget did 1900) but with less good result than the direct injection into the air intake (what he realized and found before me too ).
By the way this also explains in a simple way why small cars not good results compared to tractors (amount of water evaporated) that in most cases seen the size of the assembly made.
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