Water injection competing in 80 years

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
User avatar
gildas
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 879
Registration: 05/03/10, 23:59
x 173

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by gildas » 13/03/18, 23:22

An example that is still current on water injection in France; It is used on Transall military aircraft:

For take-off, a water injection system with methanol added, by increasing the density of the air and providing additional fuel (methanol), to recover the maximum power of the engines. It allows the engine to be supercharged for a few minutes, in order to increase the take-off weight in difficult cases (short runway or high temperature).


In 2013, when the last twenty French Transall were to last until 2018, it is now planned to retire them only in 2023 at the earliest.


Water injection is used on a turboprop, so in principle it should work on a jet plane. :P

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-160_Transall
2 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by izentrop » 14/03/18, 01:08

The enthalpy of vaporization of water is used to cool the engine during supercharging and fuel. This is not necessary for a jet plane that has enough power for takeoff.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by Christophe » 14/03/18, 09:28

I believe I read that some 747s were equipped with a kind of water injection used for takeoff only and tanks emptied at the end of the runway as soon as takeoff is effective ... but I don't know if it is injected before or after combustion ...

Having a reactor work with a denser fluid can be of interest!
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by izentrop » 14/03/18, 09:38

The vaporization and mixing of a judicious quantity of water-methanol, sufficiently upstream in the air stream, allows on the one hand to cool the air mass to bring it back to standard properties on the other hand to catch up lost power, without overheating. http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/?url=h ... thanol.php


This Wiki page which takes stock of the subject has probably already been cited: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection ... te_note-10
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by Christophe » 14/03/18, 09:56

Contrary to what some proponents of conspiracy theory suggest,


Now we are conspiracy theorists ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: it smells of defamation there ... : Mrgreen:

And of course humanity is not a conspiratorial, never, impossible ... it's not in human nature to turn it upside down! : Cheesy:

It's annoying ... Look no further than last night, Cash Investigation showed the reverse with some well-rotten officials of the SIAAP: water-pumping filtration / cash-investigation-the-scandals-of-the-water-corruption otv-veolia-SIAAP-t15589.html
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by izentrop » 14/03/18, 13:43

Christophe wrote:
Contrary to what some proponents of conspiracy theory suggest,
Now we are conspiracy theorists ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: it smells of defamation there ... : Mrgreen:
I had not taken care that the link pointed to the end of the page.
You did not know this text?
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by Christophe » 14/03/18, 19:43

So of course but I had never been careful 8 which refers to econology ... There are still big morons on Earth!
0 x
User avatar
gildas
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 879
Registration: 05/03/10, 23:59
x 173

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by gildas » 15/03/18, 19:57

Christophe wrote:I believe I read that some 747s were equipped with a kind of water injection used for takeoff only and tanks emptied at the end of the runway as soon as takeoff is effective ... but I don't know if it is injected before or after combustion ...

Having a reactor work with a denser fluid can be of interest!


It is used on Boeing B-52 Stratofortress:

Moteurs
Edit
The B-52 Stratofortress is powered by eight turbojets arranged in pairs in four nacelles suspended under the wings. The YB-52 prototype features single-flow Pratt & Whitney YJ57-P-3s which each deliver a thrust of 38,6 kN (8 lbf) [700], [52]. Improved versions of this reactor were subsequently used on the B-117A to G; these engines have a water injection system to increase take-off thrust and thus improve performance [117]. The J57-P-43WB reactor, which powers the B-52G, has a thrust of 49,8 kN (11 lbf) when dry and 200 kN (61,1 lbf) with water injection [13], [750], [117]. On the last version of the aircraft, the B-118H, the single-flow J119s are replaced by the Pratt & Whitney TF52-P-57 double-flow; they have a thrust of 33 kN (3 lbf) and do not have a water injection system [75,6], [17], [

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_ ... tofortress
2 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by Christophe » 15/03/18, 22:18

Going from 49,8 kN dry to 61,1 kN wet ... It is far from negligible! It is more than 20% gain in push!

By cons I still do not know where the water is injected: before (compression), during (combustion chamber), or after (turbine or fan) combustion?
1 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Water injection competing in the 80 years




by Christophe » 15/03/18, 22:25

According to this page it is a water-methanol mixture: https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_J57

Here it reminds me of the MW50 (water-methanol 50/50) of the BF109 ... : Cheesy:

https://www.econologie.com/injection-ea ... erschmitt/
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 123 guests