The bubbler on automobile

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
charendome
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 16
Registration: 19/12/05, 15:46
Location: Quincy (expensive)

pantone system on r19 D




by charendome » 23/12/05, 22:20

Hello.
I am new here and am interested recently to the problem.
I planned to mount such a system on my diesel r19, and am currently in the process of the location of the various elements and their size. (In fact for now I made repairs above !!!)
I am a teacher in mechanical engineering, and plan to make some parts in my school by students.
in terms of buleur, I wonder if anyone can tell me the capacity of this kind of vehicle (place will depend on its ability), I would like to know how much to provide the water tank ( still, according to the capacity, in emplacemnt dépandera)

thank you to everyone, and courage we auras !!!!

ps I'm from the Bourges region
0 x
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 25/12/05, 11:37

uh : Shock:
I haven't already read that somewhere :?:

Okay let's go :!:
I thought that night of my success to get 80 ° at the entrance of the venturi. I thought that we could apply the system to the bubbler to heat the water very simply.
A small diameter copper tube 3 is wound; 4mm in diameter and 1,5m to 2m long, around the exhaust. we make another coil in the bubbler. We connect everything to a closed circuit water reserve with an air vent anyway. The tube being of small diameter the water while heating will circulate by capillary action in the tube. The hot rises and the cold goes down. This was the principle of domestic central heaters before installing the circulators.
It is very simple to carry out and the water of the bubbler will be very hot.
What do you think :?:
Image
Ok I just read André's response to my last message, it would still require a double boiler for the system to be really top.
0 x
User avatar
lau
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 814
Registration: 19/11/05, 01:13
Location: vaucluse




by lau » 25/12/05, 18:00

Hello pitmix

there would be a way to avoid plugging into the radiator or exhaust.
I thought of something this aprem: I got a small heater / tank resistance that we could easily plug into a 12v / 220v converter via a regulator. These small converters are sold to "trucks" (catavana) and deliver max 200W.
I tried to adjust the regulator so as to absorb only 90W (visible on my electronic meter). I can tell you that even at this ridiculous power of 90W (the resistance is made for nominal 650W) it's crazy the heat that it delivers! I am even sure that in the summer 50W would be enough.
then nothing simpler to install a switch from the cabin ... but it is sure that the logic would be that we recover first the wasted heat from the radiator or gases.
0 x
The number of molecules in a drop of water is equal to the number of drop that contains the Black Sea!
User avatar
gegyx
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6929
Registration: 21/01/05, 11:59
x 2870




by gegyx » 25/12/05, 18:30

lau wrote:I thought of something this aprem: I got a small heater / tank resistance that we could easily plug into a 12v / 220v converter via a regulator
Still look noon to two o'clock! ...
If we still want to use an electrical resistance, despite the successive unfavorable opinions because there is overconsumption and unnecessary waste, or maybe, just to experiment, or to quickly heat a mini bubbler at startup, there are camping resistors to heat the water of a glass of tea, or car bottle warmers in 12 volts ...
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 25/12/05, 22:39

Hello,
It is sold a license (in special this week) it is a box with thermostat that one plugs into the water circuit of the window washer
this brings the liquid to 80c ideal for those who do not like to scrape the ice on the windshields. It costs around 45 $ can
To see the electric wires that go after that must pump a lot of juice (as we almost all alternators of 100 amperes it will just force a little horse)
Personally I think that with the exhaust we are able to do better and as quickly, just control the temperature
Instead of trying to reduce the heating we can also cool the liquid if it becomes too hot it is relatively easier than controlling the heat of the exhaust and for short trips it is much more interesting to heat quickly, even to cool on long journeys.

Andre
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 25/12/05, 22:56

Hello pitmix

My bulger looks like this, remove your reserve, remove the coil in the bubbler and between the blue arrows put a pump or like me (a venturi exhaust pump) and circulate the water mixed with exhaust gas in the coil, the heat as the bubbling is done in the coil, you just have to suck this beautiful mist.
It sounds simple but you have to put the right size of pipe at the exchanger, otherwise the aa venturi pump does not like the restriction too much, at idle it does not push a lot of water but once in speed it flows well, the bubbler is filled like a white cloud
A 1/4 coil is a bit tight.
There is an even much simpler way, as in my first assembly instead of making a coil, place the bubbler high enough crosses the exhaust by a stainless steel pipe of 1/2 and circulates the water and the bubbling at through, it heats up quickly but in long use it becomes too hot, you need to either cool the bubbler or add cool water to it, only when you are driving on long journeys.
Andre
0 x
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 26/12/05, 07:50

And yes the little ones (I too am one of them). I do not find it simpler to use a 12 / 220V converter and put a resistance or heating cords on the bottom. My system is frankly very simple. Here I represented a bubbler but I do it with my venturi. Water at 80 ° C is sprayed directly into the reactor. The flow of water means that I don't need to cool to maintain 80 ° C. The temperature varies from 65 ° to 95 ° depending on the speed. When I turn off the water, the piping drops instantly to 10 ° C. I reopen the water and in less than 30 sec (reading speed of the thermometer) the temperature rises to 80 ° C.
0 x
tryf
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 45
Registration: 08/01/06, 00:12




by tryf » 21/04/06, 22:11

Andre wrote:Today's engines with an aluminum cylinder head absorb much of the heat to the detriment of that in the exhaust,
This explains why tractor engines have a warmer exhaust, most have cast iron heads.
It was customary to say that the losses were higher in the exhaust than in cooling water, but now it is no longer true especially on diesel, as evidenced by the physical dimensions of the radiators and the speed of the engine. heating.
Andre


Hello
Aluminum is not a super heat conductor, however:
aluminum pans take more time to heat than stainless steel pans.
maybe cast iron is still - good heat conductor than aluminum?
but I do not think so.
the heating speed of the cabin is due to heating resistances.
They heat the water at the start (on recent vehicles).
tryf
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 21/04/06, 22:58

Hello Tyrf

Do you think aluminum is not a good heat conductor?
it is in metals that the greatest specific heat
and in materials it is water
When welding aluminum, it absorbs heat so much on a large piece that it is preferable to heat it beforehand, while on stainless steel or iron the heat does not go far into the room.

Why an aluminum pan takes longer to heat than a cast iron! it is very simple at the beginning all the heat is thrown into the aluminum and once it is hot it works to go to cooking, while a cast iron or stainless steel absorbs less heat.
All the radiators of electronic part are made out of aluminum for this reason, because of its great capacity of absorption and its great conductivity of heat.

Andre
0 x
User avatar
professeur31
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 113
Registration: 20/12/04, 20:28




by professeur31 » 22/04/06, 08:55

Hello
Aluminum is not a super heat conductor, however:
aluminum pans take more time to heat than stainless steel pans.
maybe cast iron is still - good heat conductor than aluminum?
but I do not think so.
the heating speed of the cabin is due to heating resistances.
They heat the water at the start (on recent vehicles).
tryf


It is true, on recent vehicles electric immersion heaters are mounted on the engine cooling circuit to allow the coolant to rise faster in temperature; 2 reasons for this:

1) Rapid heating of the passenger compartment
2) Reduction of engine wear
3) Reduction of pollutants emitted by engine not at temperature

It is the increase in efficiency (therefore decrease in heat losses) which increased the heating time of new generation diesel engines and imposed the installation of these heaters.
For cold countries, it is a fuel boiler (of the vehicle) which fulfills the heating function.

a ++
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Google [Bot] and 107 guests