Hello André
Please note that the good quality and approved fuel lines (in France) are conductive, I suppose to avoid electrical charges. I no longer remember the value of the resistance per meter (Mohm / m) but that would explain your measurements ...
Michel
Pantone engine: scientific explanation translated !!
Hello,
I measured hot this gives 45 meghoms (insulation) with mass
so there is a small flow however the fiber braid is trapped between two layers of rubber, the distance and the copper tubes is only 2cm, the humidity can also play a certain leak.
in the first little test j, had previously washed the copper bubbler with hydrochloric acid, I found that the water had a dirty color in the bubbler, yet all is copper.
therefore, as I did not rinse with baking soda, there should be enough acid particles left for the water.
Tonight I added a dose of vinegar and I made 60km, I had approximately the same voltage at the start of the journey, which are set to increase with distance (the bubbler takes a long time to heat up in winter although it only does -3) the maximum voltage reached was 0,108 volts but it tinted more steadily in the 0,085 volts.
When you stop the engine it takes a minute to bring the reading down (maybe a condenser effect from the duct?)
Now it remains to establish a relationship between economy and this voltage. (to know if the higher this voltage the better the efficiency?) No matter the values read, what interests me is to find a repair that tells me when the dosage is good.
Andre
Please note that the good quality and approved fuel lines (in France) are conductive, I suppose to avoid electrical charges. I no longer remember the value of the resistance per meter (Mohm / m) but that would explain your measurements ...
I measured hot this gives 45 meghoms (insulation) with mass
so there is a small flow however the fiber braid is trapped between two layers of rubber, the distance and the copper tubes is only 2cm, the humidity can also play a certain leak.
and do you also add 3% vinegar to this voltage?
in the first little test j, had previously washed the copper bubbler with hydrochloric acid, I found that the water had a dirty color in the bubbler, yet all is copper.
therefore, as I did not rinse with baking soda, there should be enough acid particles left for the water.
Tonight I added a dose of vinegar and I made 60km, I had approximately the same voltage at the start of the journey, which are set to increase with distance (the bubbler takes a long time to heat up in winter although it only does -3) the maximum voltage reached was 0,108 volts but it tinted more steadily in the 0,085 volts.
When you stop the engine it takes a minute to bring the reading down (maybe a condenser effect from the duct?)
Now it remains to establish a relationship between economy and this voltage. (to know if the higher this voltage the better the efficiency?) No matter the values read, what interests me is to find a repair that tells me when the dosage is good.
Andre
0 x
if your voltage drops to a standstill it means that your charges are leaking somewhere.
to increase your reading value you must try to isolate the measurement portion more.
the voltage read is a function of 2 things:
-the steam charge (more voltage = more charged steam = improved combustion if the theory is correct)
-the steam flow (as you have noticed, a higher flow is not necessarily synonymous with an improvement in engine operation).
The problem of regulating the steam flow therefore remains. No doubt to be adjusted according to the engine load ...
to increase your reading value you must try to isolate the measurement portion more.
the voltage read is a function of 2 things:
-the steam charge (more voltage = more charged steam = improved combustion if the theory is correct)
-the steam flow (as you have noticed, a higher flow is not necessarily synonymous with an improvement in engine operation).
The problem of regulating the steam flow therefore remains. No doubt to be adjusted according to the engine load ...
0 x
Bonjour à tous
BERNARD
Understanding the process
Report of a test carried out on Saturday 16 Dec. at 15 p.m. with a diesel BX equipped with a compact experimental reactor (all in one). It has 30 "stages", that is to say four different inlets for the air and water supply.
The reactor is made of stainless steel: outer tube and core .... hollow? (12X17 stainless steel tube) with exhaust gas passage, between 1mm iron.
The steam generator is a coil incorporated in the reactor: (1,10 meters of 8X10 copper tube).
Test carried out on an artisanal bench: braking bench modified into a load bench.
Engine speed stabilized by a preset rod placed on the injection pump.
Diesel, water and vacuum consumption control by column.
Duration of the test: 1,45 hours
Outdoor temperature: 7 ° C
BX 3rd speed
2000 rpm rod / empty engine
Engine laps laden = 1740 read on the BX dashboard
BX counter: 65 Km / L
The water and air are supplied at the same time through the coil (GV). The addition of air eliminates the "coffee maker" effect and draws the water away much faster.
Result after 1,45 hours of continuous walking:
Temperature of steam + air leaving mainsail and entering reactor: 103 ° C.
Reactor outlet temperature 64,2 °
Temperature of the total intake air: 73 °. This air preheated to 70 ° would give better performance to the system.
Voltage 550 mV with 1% vinegar in the water (maybe not necessary).
Intensity 25 microamps and still 290 mV on Tuesday Dec 19. at 10 a.m.
Average diesel consumption per minute = 24,84 cubic centimeters for 28,08 before doping.
Water consumption per minute = 2,73 cubic centimeters for this configuration. Drip feed = approximately 73 drops per minute.
All with a depression of 18 cm on the 5 mm diameter water column taken in the middle of the reactor (3rd stage).
The length of the vapor path in the reactor = 225 mm (4th stage).
It does not seem very scientific but it helps to rough up and reverse engineer the myth of water doping.
It is the application of the ideas and the tests of the technicians of the site: André - Camel - Zac - Pit etc. - Bolt - Bob (brains!)
There are times when it works well and the next day is completely useless. We are never sure of what we believe to have discovered but we must move forward guys.
Super Christmas everyone. (It allows you to decompress).
GERARD
The tests we will carry out are done on static machines.
Bernard's BX is placed on a load bench.
My gasoline group feeds through an meter, ammeter, voltmeter an electric plate
The protocol used consists in reading before the start of the test some general parameters date, weather, temperature, wind, rain etc.
When the engines are hot every minute, we note:
For Bernard the volume consumed
For me the weight of the petrol consumed
The voltage reading on the insulated tube is used to adjust the air-water mixture before the reactor
I agree with Andrée the measurement of instant consumption is very important, the dream would be to use a manager interface:
-Consumption
-Voltage
-Temperature, etc.
Directly connect to the computer's USB!
For now we manually enter the data to obtain the yield curves
Merry Christmas everyone, have a good holiday season.
Bernard & Gerard
BERNARD
Understanding the process
Report of a test carried out on Saturday 16 Dec. at 15 p.m. with a diesel BX equipped with a compact experimental reactor (all in one). It has 30 "stages", that is to say four different inlets for the air and water supply.
The reactor is made of stainless steel: outer tube and core .... hollow? (12X17 stainless steel tube) with exhaust gas passage, between 1mm iron.
The steam generator is a coil incorporated in the reactor: (1,10 meters of 8X10 copper tube).
Test carried out on an artisanal bench: braking bench modified into a load bench.
Engine speed stabilized by a preset rod placed on the injection pump.
Diesel, water and vacuum consumption control by column.
Duration of the test: 1,45 hours
Outdoor temperature: 7 ° C
BX 3rd speed
2000 rpm rod / empty engine
Engine laps laden = 1740 read on the BX dashboard
BX counter: 65 Km / L
The water and air are supplied at the same time through the coil (GV). The addition of air eliminates the "coffee maker" effect and draws the water away much faster.
Result after 1,45 hours of continuous walking:
Temperature of steam + air leaving mainsail and entering reactor: 103 ° C.
Reactor outlet temperature 64,2 °
Temperature of the total intake air: 73 °. This air preheated to 70 ° would give better performance to the system.
Voltage 550 mV with 1% vinegar in the water (maybe not necessary).
Intensity 25 microamps and still 290 mV on Tuesday Dec 19. at 10 a.m.
Average diesel consumption per minute = 24,84 cubic centimeters for 28,08 before doping.
Water consumption per minute = 2,73 cubic centimeters for this configuration. Drip feed = approximately 73 drops per minute.
All with a depression of 18 cm on the 5 mm diameter water column taken in the middle of the reactor (3rd stage).
The length of the vapor path in the reactor = 225 mm (4th stage).
It does not seem very scientific but it helps to rough up and reverse engineer the myth of water doping.
It is the application of the ideas and the tests of the technicians of the site: André - Camel - Zac - Pit etc. - Bolt - Bob (brains!)
There are times when it works well and the next day is completely useless. We are never sure of what we believe to have discovered but we must move forward guys.
Super Christmas everyone. (It allows you to decompress).
GERARD
The tests we will carry out are done on static machines.
Bernard's BX is placed on a load bench.
My gasoline group feeds through an meter, ammeter, voltmeter an electric plate
The protocol used consists in reading before the start of the test some general parameters date, weather, temperature, wind, rain etc.
When the engines are hot every minute, we note:
For Bernard the volume consumed
For me the weight of the petrol consumed
The voltage reading on the insulated tube is used to adjust the air-water mixture before the reactor
I agree with Andrée the measurement of instant consumption is very important, the dream would be to use a manager interface:
-Consumption
-Voltage
-Temperature, etc.
Directly connect to the computer's USB!
For now we manually enter the data to obtain the yield curves
Merry Christmas everyone, have a good holiday season.
Bernard & Gerard
0 x
56 Alex wrote: Outer tube and core .... hollow? (12X17 stainless steel tube) with exhaust gas passage, between 1mm iron.
The steam generator is a coil incorporated in the reactor: (1,10 meters of 8X10 copper tube).
Water and air are supplied at the same time through the coil (GV). The addition of air removes the "coffee maker" effect and entrains the water much faster.
Result after 1,45 hours of continuous walking:
Steam temperature + air outlet GV and reactor inlet: 103 ° C.
Average diesel consumption per minute = 24,84 cubic centimeters for 28,08 before doping.
Water consumption per minute = 2,73 cubic centimeter
All with a depression of 18 cm on the 5 mm diameter water column taken in the middle of the reactor (3rd stage).
The length of the vapor path in the reactor = 225 mm
good evening Alex56
according to these data: the engine consumes 1,6848 l / h before doping, it is therefore not very loaded: can you confirm it with the bench (braking torque to the wheels by the rollers divided by the gear ratio -bridge)
to understand (and comment on) your montage, a sketch would be welcome:
with an air gap 10/12 x 225 mm long and 18 cm water column after the reactor and before adm. motor + hose of 1,10m diam. int. 8 mm, I calculate a vapor flow of 0,45 m3 / h in which it passes 0,1638 L / h of water:
if this assembly enters at 103 ° C in the reactor, it is necessarily dry steam since to saturate the 0,45 m3 at 103 ° C it can have up to 0,269 L of water
it's just to represent things and understand why later
for the moment I don't have any certainties, but I think your assembly is good: the reactor could swallow superheated steam to operate
if your measurements are good and the engine was not very loaded, by increasing the test load you may increase the percentage of savings between pantone and without pantone
in any case, well done for these essays and for having published them
ps: try to take the water column depression between the coil and the reactor if it is accessible (more precise for calculations)
bolt
0 x
Hello Alex 56
for the cores made with a stainless steel tube, it is preferable to drive an iron rod tight inside the tube, or a simple solid iron rod (I have no explanation above but try and you will see )
The passage of air pumps the water in the coil, this makes a narrow bubbler in a coil (this principle works well with exhaust gases, we pump the water from the bubbler and we recover the vapor at the top of the bubbler that starts quickly the bubbler, I had to abandon this good system because the water freezes in winter in this pump)
If you want to lower this temperature to get (good) steam make a small inlet of cold air just before the reactor, a bit like the bubbling steam coming out of a coffee maker, arrived in the air it becomes a nebulous vapor (like the one we saw in our first transparent bubbler experiments)
There I am a little lost, the product enters at 103 c goes into the reactor and comes out at 64,2 c? there must be a reading error!
In reality if you push the measurements a bit you will see that the temperature drops a little when leaving the rod in the area where the exhaust is at its hottest on the nose of the reactor, which is why the outlet Reactor doped with water is not as hot as one might expect. (on an experimental setup with a long rod that protrudes from the reactor with a chamber that grows at the end of the rod the rod can be held with your bare hand while a few cm further it is blue) normally by conductivity it should be hot, sometimes it is colder than the outside air.
The voltage difference measured and slightly higher with acid water and tap water. I noticed that too much vacuum in the reactor decreases the voltage on the outlet tube and more heat in the reactor increases the voltage.
The fuel consumption is low, slightly more than an engine running at a slow speed, it must lack heat in the exhaust?
The water consumption is around 10% of the diesel consumed this can vary with the temperature of the reactor and the load, the way to control the volume of water consumed is by a small air inlet adjustable to l '' reactor inlet or GV outlet depending on whether the rod is directly in the reactor inlet (although there is also an air vapor ratio
at 2000 rpm it is not a strong depression, it should be in the 70cm for a quick test a little flange the admission 50%, although it is not the ideal solution, just to help the reactor
I do not understand the concept of floor on the assembly?
You are well set to do real tests, do not be discouraged experiences require patience and time, but above all a spirit of observation and analysis. We have to find out why the system is not always operational.
what value of voltage and amperage takes place the tests?
At first glance you are limited to a few kw on the generator? (Small generator or charge not available).
But you have at least a bench to work on.
In your case, the voltage measurements on the outlet tube are higher than I think I have less duct surface than yours and more insulation leakage.
Andre
Bonjour à tous
BERNARD
Understanding the process
Report of a test carried out on Saturday Dec 16. at 15 p.m. with a diesel BX fitted with a compact experimental reactor (all in one). It has 30 "stages", that is to say four different inputs for air and water supply.
The reactor is made of stainless steel: Outer tube and core… .hollow? (12X17 stainless steel tube) with exhaust gas passage, between 1mm iron.
for the cores made with a stainless steel tube, it is preferable to drive an iron rod tight inside the tube, or a simple solid iron rod (I have no explanation above but try and you will see )
The steam generator is a coil incorporated in the reactor: (1,10 meters of 8X10 copper tube).
Test carried out on an artisanal bench: braking bench modified into a load bench.
Engine speed stabilized by a preset rod placed on the injection pump.
Diesel, water and vacuum consumption control by column.
Duration of the test: 1,45 hours
Outside temperature: 7 ° C
BX 3rd speed
Pigeon 2000 rpm / vacuum engine
Engine laps laden = 1740 read on the BX dashboard
BX counter: 65 Km / L
Water and air are supplied at the same time through the coil (GV). The addition of air removes the "coffee maker" effect and entrains the water much faster.
The passage of air pumps the water in the coil, this makes a narrow bubbler in a coil (this principle works well with exhaust gases, we pump the water from the bubbler and we recover the vapor at the top of the bubbler that starts quickly the bubbler, I had to abandon this good system because the water freezes in winter in this pump)
Result after 1,45 hours of continuous walking:
Steam temperature + air outlet GV and reactor inlet: 103 °
If you want to lower this temperature to get (good) steam make a small inlet of cold air just before the reactor, a bit like the bubbling steam coming out of a coffee maker, arrived in the air it becomes a nebulous vapor (like the one we saw in our first transparent bubbler experiments)
Reactor outlet temperature 64,2 °
There I am a little lost, the product enters at 103 c goes into the reactor and comes out at 64,2 c? there must be a reading error!
In reality if you push the measurements a bit you will see that the temperature drops a little when leaving the rod in the area where the exhaust is at its hottest on the nose of the reactor, which is why the outlet Reactor doped with water is not as hot as one might expect. (on an experimental setup with a long rod that protrudes from the reactor with a chamber that grows at the end of the rod the rod can be held with your bare hand while a few cm further it is blue) normally by conductivity it should be hot, sometimes it is colder than the outside air.
Temperature of the entire intake air: 73 °. This air preheated to 70 ° would give a better efficiency to the system.
Voltage 550 mV with 1% vinegar in the water (maybe not necessary).
Intensity 25 microamps and always 290 mV
The voltage difference measured and slightly higher with acid water and tap water. I noticed that too much vacuum in the reactor decreases the voltage on the outlet tube and more heat in the reactor increases the voltage.
Tuesday Dec 19 at 10 a.m.
Average diesel consumption per minute = 24,84 cubic centimeters for 28,08 before doping.
Water consumption per minute = 2,73 cubic centimeters for this configuration. Drip feed = approximately 73 drops per minute.
The fuel consumption is low, slightly more than an engine running at a slow speed, it must lack heat in the exhaust?
The water consumption is around 10% of the diesel consumed this can vary with the temperature of the reactor and the load, the way to control the volume of water consumed is by a small air inlet adjustable to l '' reactor inlet or GV outlet depending on whether the rod is directly in the reactor inlet (although there is also an air vapor ratio
All with a depression of 18 cm on the water column
at 2000 rpm it is not a strong depression, it should be in the 70cm for a quick test a little flange the admission 50%, although it is not the ideal solution, just to help the reactor
diameter 5 mm taken in the middle of the reactor (3rd stage).
The length of the vapor path in the reactor = 225 mm (4th stage).
I do not understand the concept of floor on the assembly?
It does not seem very scientific but it helps to rough up and reverse engineer the myth of water doping.
It is the application of the ideas and tests of the site technicians: André - Camel - Zac - Pit etc. - Bolt - Bob (brains!)
There are times when it works well and the next day is completely useless. We are never sure of what we believe to have discovered but we must move forward guys.
Super Christmas everyone. (It allows you to decompress).
GERARD
The tests we will carry out are done on static machines.
Bernard's BX is placed on a load bench.
My gasoline group feeds through an meter, ammeter, voltmeter an electric plate
The protocol used consists in reading before the start of the test some general parameters date, weather, temperature, wind, rain etc.
When the engines are warm every minute, we note:
For Bernard the volume consumed
For me the weight of the petrol consumed
The voltage reading on the insulated tube is used to adjust the air-water mixture before the reactor.
I agree with André the measurement of instant consumption is very important, the dream would be to use a manager interface:
-Consumption
-Voltage
-Temperature, etc.
Directly connect to USB from the computer!
For now we manually enter the data to obtain the yield curves
Merry Christmas everyone, have a good holiday season.
Bernard & Gérar
You are well set to do real tests, do not be discouraged experiences require patience and time, but above all a spirit of observation and analysis. We have to find out why the system is not always operational.
what value of voltage and amperage takes place the tests?
At first glance you are limited to a few kw on the generator? (Small generator or charge not available).
But you have at least a bench to work on.
In your case, the voltage measurements on the outlet tube are higher than I think I have less duct surface than yours and more insulation leakage.
Andre
0 x
Hello,
I forgot to specify, that barring the accelerator of an injection pump on a diesel does not mean constant consumption, I had installed a potentiometer on the accelerator to do tests, I quickly realized that it is nothing but an order that we give to the pump and that the pump has its own regulator which takes into account the pressure of the intake manifold (to prevent smoking) and also a regulator according to the load of the engine.
So you absolutely need a way to measure the diesel flow
and it is doable we can do without the return by making a small loop in a 1 liter tank so a single supply,
I run 7000 km this summer like this ..
So easier to find a flow meter ..
Andre
I forgot to specify, that barring the accelerator of an injection pump on a diesel does not mean constant consumption, I had installed a potentiometer on the accelerator to do tests, I quickly realized that it is nothing but an order that we give to the pump and that the pump has its own regulator which takes into account the pressure of the intake manifold (to prevent smoking) and also a regulator according to the load of the engine.
So you absolutely need a way to measure the diesel flow
and it is doable we can do without the return by making a small loop in a 1 liter tank so a single supply,
I run 7000 km this summer like this ..
So easier to find a flow meter ..
Andre
0 x
-
laurent.delaon
- I understand econologic
- posts: 168
- Registration: 13/08/05, 17:49
56 Alex wrote:..........................................
It does not seem very scientific but it helps to rough up and reverse engineer the myth of water doping.
This is the application ideas and tests from site technicians: André - Camel - Zac - Pit etc. - Bolt - Bob (brains!)
There are times when it works well and the next day is completely useless. We are never sure of what we believe to have discovered but we must move forward guys.
Super Christmas everyone. (It allows you to decompress).
GERARD
.............................................................
I agree with Andrée the measurement of instant consumption is very important, the dream would be to use a manager interface:
-Consumption
-Voltage
-Temperature, etc.
Directly connect to USB from the computer!
For now we manually enter the data to obtain the yield curves
Merry Christmas everyone, have a good holiday season.
Bernard & Gerard
well i feel good cynergy and boiling gray matter
precisely speaking of brains technicians or technicians brains (KOM you prefer ...) well I take this opportunity to attract attention of these people (day-to-day actors of pantone econology and all other alternatives which I am putting together a project file for the end of study and that I invite all mechanics, thinkers (physics-chemistry), amateurs and technicians of the pantone in order to validate (by the results) to recognize and know the general public this system ...
I will put my file near the university early next year ...
well vi not in 10 years ... just in ten days next year
I take this opportunity for YOU (world wide econology version) wish Happy Holidays and that Santa Claus puts lots of econological KDO in his hood !!!
0 x
"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan
next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!
MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!
MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
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