Liquidate the legacy of Pantone engine!

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.

should we stop promoting the Pantone engine?

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elephant
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by elephant » 24/09/07, 10:04

Dear Ming,

if people like you, loaded with diplomas and having access to laboratories, immediately started and took steps to:

1) explain why it works
2) determine operating and non-operating conditions
3) explain how to do it better

you would not have needed to write your first page on this topic.

Certainly, one can do without esoteric vocabulary and assumptions. But the testimonies are there.
So, if you want to be useful:

Roll up your sleeves!
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by abyssin3 » 24/09/07, 11:17

ming wrote:I am convinced that the truth is what is most strongly believed by the greatest number

I give you some examples of facts that have been believed by the greatest number, after you tell me if you still think:
1- The Incas (and some others) thought all without exception that the sun is a god. [For you it's a god or a star?]
2- In the genocides (Jews, Rwanda, etc.), the exterminated population is always flood by the greatest number as harmful. [For you, were these populations really harmful?]
3- For years, many people were not approaching people with AIDS for fear of catching HIV by proximity. What is needed even by saliva. [For you, were they right or wrong?]
4- It was long thought that the earth was flat, but then long time. [Was it true or false?]

As another person said, did you learn something from history?
What everyone thinks (in the "pasture" at least) is the first thing I am wary of.
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by gilgamesh » 24/09/07, 12:24

engineer?? Bath I am very impressed ..... my wife and teacher at the university sience and most of the students who come out of the race are stupid as pears and we already consider the administrative passage to no longer s'emerder to pass them
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by bpval » 24/09/07, 14:15

Hello

"The forums, the eco-friendly boutique

What is the Pantone system or "engine"? (the term pantone engine is a misnomer: it is a process or a system mounted on existing engines) "

This is what Christian wrote in the introduction of the "pantone engine"

It is rather explicit no!
But you have to click and read : Mrgreen:

But it's true that it could be

"Pantone doping"
ou
"Pantone Doping Engine"


Hello
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by lio74 » 24/09/07, 19:58

Hello !

houlala topic that makes the fuss over the forum hihihi : Mrgreen:

I'm not going to get into a big philosophical debate, but just ponder a little bit about it:

ming wrote:I see that we are moving away from the substantive issue. Recadrons:

1 - The Pantone engine is out of date so should it be promoted?

[...]

Other than that, I have absolutely nothing against DIYers trying to reduce their conso or their rejections.

et

On the internet, we speak today of free energy of the vacuum, always against the backdrop of a grand-capitalistic plot. This is the same story that affects people emotionally and allows short-circuiting reason and scientific demonstration.


in a sense your speech is not necessary! we must always be wary of what we read on the internet ... check the sources and even make the applications :P hihi to be on!

now, your speech appeared as a detractor of the system => Steam doping ...
the pantone engine pfff ... without comment, small error of voc!
and as here there are a number of people who do a lot with little means, but who have results when !! it goes wrong :?

I do not want to shout at the conspiracy, but there is the fact that the basic patent (basic finally ... if we forget Chambrin and all the other previous work) is public ... not good for the buisness all that. ..

I replied without opinion =
_ yes: must continue to talk about not to forget and to finally do a real research on
_ no: must shout to the miracle solution that will save the world and all the trimmings ...

in my opinion it's a good accompaniment solution for the end of the oil (peak between 2015 and 2020 ... down and total end not before 2050 ... but with a barrel at 200 $)

with your diploma armada you do not want to find us a lab with test bench :D :?:

for bham:
And then one more thing, the culmination of the studies, in my opinion, must be consecrated by the humility and openness of the student and not by a self-confidence to be superior to others and think better than them. Otherwise there is something that has messed up.
But perhaps it is the will of pedagogy because, in general, when one studies, it is potentially to direct those who have not done so.

it is unfortunately the problem of all "large engineering schools", businesses, and especially Sci Po and the ENA !!! that's why I boycotted the engineering school ... 8) :P
(without attack for christophe ... the brainwashing is not effective on everyone)

@+

PS: what was your doctorate ming?
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by elephant » 24/09/07, 21:47

lio 74:

you are less lazy than I am to write (unless it is my synthetic mind that is more developed :D )

but that's what I said, right? :D
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by ming » 25/09/07, 02:39

Here is an impartial and uncompromising opinion on the Pantone engine, based solely on the amended end-of-study report by Chistophe Martz. It is a source that has the merit of being written and has been evaluated by a jury of scientists. His amendments in red are the mark of his integrity. It invalidates, among other things, the influence of the magnetic field on the gas flow and on the existence of a spiral trajectory, likely to lengthen the passage time in the rod [page 71].

The presence of the Pantone device profoundly changes the engine, to the point that it can not provide more than 2000 W of electrical power. We can not afford to compare the original engine with the Pantonised engine. So we compare with the operation during the heating period, during which the gas does not return to the engine. Experimentally, there is a significant reduction in consumption thanks to the Pantone device. Then, assuming that better technology can overcome the problem of power provided, we can safely advance on the promising aspect of the device Pantone. Indeed, it seems likely that the device can continue to achieve the same savings. Solutions have been proposed, a schematic diagram has been designed. But only experience can prove the validity of the scheme and forecasts. This report does not mention such experiences. The experimental data from the report do not therefore allow to consider the industrialization of the Pantone device [page 108: "the loss of power found on our assembly is not acceptable in the case of industrialization"]. Only the experimentation of the improved Pantone device proposed in the appendix [page 108: Figure 38] can unveil the gain in consumption compared to the original engine. We can just afford to be optimistic about this, given the current results. Conclusion: reduction of consumption = not yet developed.

The pollution test numbers are impressive: unburnt disposal, complete combustion and reduction of CO2 emissions. These figures are first explained by the formation, within the reactor-evaporator system, of a product based on unburnt materials, the combustion of which releases less CO2 and whose combustion is almost complete: the famous gasoline vapor, as opposed to particle fog [page 88]. However, the experiment without rod [page 89] does not demonstrate in any case the formation of such a vapor. It only confirms the reduction of pollutant emissions. Moreover, there is a theoretical vacuum as to the explanation of the formation of the vapor: nothing on the conditions of temperature and pressure in particular. The disappearance of carbon is doubtful [page 89] because the author states in an amendment that only a mass analysis would be able to trace carbon. Indeed, it only measures the composition of the exhaust gas, without guaranteeing the conservation of the mass. In other words, the lost carbon may have escaped the sensors! It is impossible then to judge the nature of chemical reactions in the absence of mass analysis. This is a flaw in the experimental protocol, which invalidates the hypothesis of active oxygen.

The interest of the study by chromatography would precisely highlight a better combustion through the demonstration of reforming. Objectively, the chromatography indicates a change in the composition of the gases between the inlet and the outlet of the reactor [pages 96-97: Figures 35a-35b]: presence of more volatile HC. But let's not forget that it is the mass proportion that is measured, not the mass. Impossible to prove the presence of a chemical reaction. The following catharometry [page 98] does not detect either H2 or CH4. The reforming product, if it occurs, remains unknown. Conclusion: we still do not know why the combustion is more complete, nor why the consumption is lower = not at the point.

Finally, the experimental study does not take into account the NOX emissions [page 92]. I would like to quote the opinion of a friend who is quite familiar with greenhouse gases: "[...] the NOX that he refuses to take into account have a much greater global warming power (GWP). to that of CO2. (see table on page 73 and 75 of "The climatic future" by JM Jancovici). Nitrous oxide has a relative GWP over twenty years 275 times greater than that of CO2. This point is in my opinion the major shortcoming of the Pantone engine. "

Finally, I allow myself to complete a simplistic assumption made in an amendment [page 103] following the description of the loop operation. The low-volatility unburnt eventually fouled the cylinders, the reactor, the evaporator and the CO2 dissolved in the water. Recall that the chromatography measures mass proportions of gases, not masses. A change in composition due to a deposit on the walls of low volatility HC would give the same chromatogram. Only volatile HC will be re-injected into the engine. Their presence at the reactor outlet is experimentally confirmed. We only know their proportion, not their quantity. The mystery finally hovers over the reduction of consumption between operation B and C, namely heating and Pantone. Questions: Why does the presence of the device lead to a waste of fuel in the reactor, leading to over-consumption of 60% during reactor heating [page 85]? Can the reinjection of volatile unburnt compensate for this loss, amounting to 60%? What is the influence on the consumption of the heating resistor, which requires 1000 W [59,85 pages], knowing that 2000 W is the measured power output?
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by Other » 25/09/07, 06:01

Hello

So forum very little 100% panton mounts that runs on fuel at least on automobile engines

Most are doping with water on diesel engines
and since christoph's studies a few years have passed and many things are changed.

The subject panton small lawn mower with bubbler or we put milk or beer to run the engine, it's been a long time that amazes us more, no longer run an engine with fuel oil or oil that is relatively easy and nothing fancy.
What interests us is only with water, reduce the consumption of more than 30% ..
We did not invent anything we just try to run a diesel engine.

Andre
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by oliburn » 25/09/07, 07:13

it's the thinking majority that's right ... !!!!!!!! :frown:

provided that a "right-thinking" minority put them in
the head what to think, so it's the minority
who is at the origin of the majority thought ...

it's like one who has seen a guy walk on water, noise
ran and we could not check so today millions
people still believe in it ... : Cheesy:
ask Mother Theresa what she thought of it!
in reality "ON" wants the majority to think what we want
she thinks
I'm happy to exchange ideas, take the one that
walk and analyze those that work by half (as
the pantone), lastly I pierced my candles (still
a thing believed by a minority) since I needed them
change, well race result:
my bike starts without starter (there is something that happens)
my pot no longer blackened where I had pierced my baffles (so
the combustion is better)
in my club there are mecanos and we watched together
the color of the candles, it is according to them: ideal
conso question it's about 10%
so now, I'm not a preacher, the one who
pouting and mistaking me for an illuminated one will pass his
way, I have no time to lose (like André)
on the other hand, who is curious, I will tell him my story
and he will do what he wants .......... !!!
this is the exchange (it does not work with sheep)

long live the forums, it is thanks to them that the world
tomorrow may be a little wiser
Oh, by the way! I put 70% oil in my car, it does not vibrate
more, she does not smoke anymore, she is much less noisy ...
it's still a shot of minority thinking !!! : Mrgreen:
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by sam17 » 25/09/07, 09:24

When reading this topic, I really feel like I'm dealing with a deaf dialogue!

On the one hand "ming" which develops a whole opinion on a several years old report, on the other, full of people who experiment daily with some success with the vapor doping process.

What emerges from the few posts is that it is almost impossible to change the mind of someone who has already made a point of view, even if this point of view is based on incomplete information, obsolete or just beside the plate!
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