Iron or stainless steel for pantone reactor?

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Other
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Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
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by Other » 28/04/06, 04:33

Hello bolt
I know without much calculation, that the length of the conduit and the rod have a good part on the restriction, not only the square mm of the passage of the venturi neck of the carburettor, and that is why I ask myself how a 10mm carburetor of diameter can provide such a reactor? in all that I can not, so I'm in the 4,5mm ...

Regarding the famous tractor, despite what you say on the regulator, makes the test that I describe at the top if you strongly block the admmisssion of the engine accelerator needs a lot of race to reach the speed of 1000 RPM and without touching the accelerator, such as at this position, if you let in the reactor the engine will go up in a tower (try with a pump bosch)
For Schutt
Try to make a blue flame with oil, I do not say it's environmentally friendly, but for me it's a revealing test

Andre
Last edited by Other the 02 / 05 / 06, 04: 49, 2 edited once.
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bolt
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by bolt » 28/04/06, 14:18

Hello André

I understood that at the moment when it does its adjustment of the speed at 900 rpm, the bubbler is already in action, and the engine does not polue already (valve A is open)
And if the valve B is open at the start, it does not prevent the bubbler from bubbling freely, if the depression is sufficient to make it pass through the bubbler by the exhaust gases, free to go where they want at this time.

So at this point, the restriction on admission, I think, is largely recovered by the diversion, through the bubbler, and there must be enough air to run the engine, more without any charge
It tugs without polishing at this time, and moreover it has just slowed down after the non-polishing test at full speed (2000 tr) coming to start the pantone system by the valve A

Moreover, at this moment, the regulator has had to limit the fuel flow very they say they have decreased consumption by 3, 4, see 5

Me, what I still do not understand is how later, (with the engine running), the combustion continues to be active, since the regulator, following the runaway engine, has completely shut off the arrival of the fuel at the injector, and at this moment, therefore no longer gives "spark" as they say to "prime" this combustion

Had he at the 1er test (black smoke), stored enough unburned in the bubbler, to have something other than water, although at that moment, valve A was closed, and as soon as it was was open, he was polulating more, finally, he still had 40 seconds to do the "full" of unburned in his bubbler


I know, you think that 900 rpm, he can not speed up more of himself, and that he has at this moment enough fuel injected to get to pack it if we give him more simply, that the air intake is too restricted



and what I had thought:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/tracteur-pantone-au-banc-d-essai-t1028.html

On this blue tractor, the restriction was probably natural (fouling) : Evil: :| : Mrgreen: [/at]
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 29/04/06, 09:02

Andre wrote:For Schutt
Try to make a blue flame with oil, I do not say it's environmentally friendly, but for me it's a revealing test

Andre


I have never dared to put old oil, because the fuel flow control system is very sensitive to fouling. on the other hand, we have already added brake oil that had taken water, mixed with 50% with fuel and it always burns blue. a beautiful blue elsewhere 8)
http://www.flamme-bleue.com/imgprdt/375.jpg
today most oil stoves have a blue flame, either directly or with a catalyst.
all you need is to reach a high combustion temperature.
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JLS
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Registration: 20/04/06, 14:32




by JLS » 02/05/06, 10:37

Philippe Schutt wrote:
JLS wrote:
Personally, an experience that seems to me basic and uplifting in terms of reactor performance, hydrocarbon kracking, easy to quantify and able to integrate a "lab" given its size, is the oil burner Mr.David ( See website As, M.David, Page8)

With almost nothing you turn a flame "oil" yellow and steaming in a torch "white flame" able to melt a steel blade around 1400 °!


J-Luc


Yeah, just heat the oil, no need for a pantone for that. Then, the oil that burns with the blue flame, DEVILLE has done for decades in their stoves, and without compressor or reactor. This experience is absolutely not convincing!


Sorry to come back to the charge but it seems to me that you confuse the blue flame "deville" and the gas GEET, because this same reactor, runs a 4T petrol engine on a generator, from domestic fuel.

A blue fuel oil famme will never wait for such a high temperature anyway => It's more fuel oil !!! it is a super fuel gas.

A little rigor please otherwise it's blah, it's not constructive!

Hello

J-Luc
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lau
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by lau » 02/05/06, 18:26

JLS wrote:... working on old engines does not necessarily give much credibility to the pantone system


Exact and it's been a while since I say it. I believe that the most spectacular results are precisely on old engines and we are always reluctant to equip new, and yet ..
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 03/05/06, 09:44

JLS wrote:
Sorry to come back to the charge but it seems to me that you confuse the blue flame "deville" and the gas GEET, because this same reactor, runs a 4T petrol engine on a generator, from domestic fuel.

A blue fuel oil famme will never wait for such a high temperature anyway => It's more fuel oil !!! it is a super fuel gas.

J-Luc


1. you start from the assumption that there is GEET gas. however, in this assembly, we do not add water. hence my doubt.
2. I use my oil stove as a forge and I can tell you that my irons heat up quickly and well.
3. the color of the flame is a valid indication of the t °, the wavelength is directly a function of the t °

from the moment you burn the gas oil, you can have a blue flame and very hot. it is only with droplets that you have a yellow or white flame. with the nozzle, the flame is more directed than in a stove, so it is hotter. in a stove, you heat a surface of 15cm in diameter. for me, the balance is equivalent.

A little rigor please otherwise it's blah, it's not constructive!

tss tss tss
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JLS
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by JLS » 03/05/06, 11:44

Hello Philippe,

May I remind you of David M's observations on the combustion of gas leaving the reactor:

(Extracts)

2 - After 2 minutes the reactor is hot, which comes out burning with a blue flame of 2 or 3 cm, then the flame gets shorter and shorter, burns inside the beak and is almost invisible with a sound of a blowtorch.

3 - At that moment, a steel blade (hacksaw) introduced into the flame, quickly becomes white and forms the drop.

The observations 2 and 3 allow us to affirm that we are dealing with a product capable of producing a flame temperature of 1400 ° with the ambient air as oxidizer since we are able to melt a steel blade. Who says better ? The speed of propagation of the flame of this product is very fast since the flame is shortened and goes down inside the burner nozzle as it rises in temperature and good adjustment of the carburetor. At the same time it becomes almost invisible (see photos of my Page 8).


Do you get that in your oil stove ???

Honestly, to ignore this type of experience by likening it to an oil stove that borders on obscurantism ...

Or David M. is a charlatan ... what I refuse to think ...

Can someone confirm or refute Mr. David's observations?

A+

J-Luc
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 03/05/06, 12:06

JLS wrote:Hello Philippe,

Do you get that in your oil stove ???

no, because there is not the concentration of heat that gives the nozzle. On the other hand, to wear red a square full of 30x30 poses no problem. so the calories are there.

Honestly, to ignore this type of experience by likening it to an oil stove that borders on obscurantism ...

to believe anything even more. Doubt is the first step of reflection.

Or David M. is a charlatan ... what I refuse to think ...

others have the same attitude towards their guru

Can someone confirm or refute Mr. David's observations?

it would take at least an estimate of the calories released and the fuel consumption to see if there is a gain [/ quote]
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JLS
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by JLS » 03/05/06, 13:51

Sorry Philippe, I do not think I have found my guru yet ...

I read articles, I try to understand, to find simple and quantifiable topics of experience.

You balance me almost "Ciculez y'a nothing to see"

I do not think this is the best way to motivate newcomers.

Damage

A+

J-Luc
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 03/05/06, 14:15

certainly not. and you will notice that I do not accuse you of lacking rigor or obscurantism. : Evil:

I explained to you my reasoning, on what experience it is based, and a credible method to invalidate it. I remain open to any other method, which clearly shows the gain.
If there was water doping, and that allowed to reduce the flow of fuel while keeping the same flame, it would be ok too.

But really, this experience does not seem convincing to me, it does not figure anything, not even approximately. I would even say that it discredits his other claims
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