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Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 03/11/12, 17:05

I was wrong I was still at the previous diagram

it makes me think of another problem: emulsions do not do good to the carburetor: the flow rate in the nozzle changes completely each time it passes water or fuel

I found it by fesant 2-stroke mixture with ethanol E85 ... ethanol does not dissolve the oil, only the 15% of gasoline that it contains dissolve the oil, but that does not allow to properly dissolve my 4% oil: result it makes a fairly stable dressing: the engines do not seize up, there is enough oil, but no adjustment of the carburetor is possible: everything works irregularly, sometimes it stalls sometimes it gets carried away ... sometimes it smokes
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gildas
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by gildas » 03/11/12, 17:31

chatelot16 wrote:
the only solution to have a constant composition: to minimize the volume to boil, and feed it constantly to maintain the constant level


This remark reminds me of the engine Miraclean to try to understand how the bubbler / nebulizer works Cold which team:


Image
rod-reactor-study-pantone-heating-or-cavitation-t4944-60.html

The air / petrol / water intake of the engine comes only through the reactor, so there is a strong depression in the reactor because the suction made by the engine must create a vortex which is used to mix in the bubbler the 80% d water and 20% gasoline. The secret of the Mireaclean could well be linked to the bubbler. How much mixture does it take to create enough depression in the reactor knowing that depression promotes thermolysis of water?

nlc wrote:By falling on the page http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eau I see that it is indicated that thermolysis becomes significant around 750 ° C.

In a well-made pantone assembly, on a petrol engine, we are likely to reach this temperature right?
If yes, that would mean that at the outlet of the reactor, we could really have a little hydrogen!

In addition, we know that with a lower pressure, the water boils at a lower temperature. Could it not be the same for the thermolysis temperature, since the reactor is under vacuum?

Christophe wrote:Exactly!!

These hypotheses are entirely valid and I think that we could still lower this value with catalysts (stainless steel, chrome ...) on the other hand the experience of lavoisier is not valid in our case (far too much consumption of Iron compared energy from water ...). There is a post on the subject on the forum :

understanding injection water / operation-by-m-Lavoisier-hydrogen-and-iron-t1069.html

For the pressure you are also right, I had curves under the eyes concerning the cracking of hydrogen. But you really have to go down in pressure (from 1/100 to 1/1000 atm) for the cracked / uncracked proportion to be really increased ...
is quite far with the suction of a motor (1/10 atm).

cracking-of-water-by-thermolysis-t1213.html

For the depression to be constant, a constant supply of water and fuel to the bubbler is necessary.
It is not known how the mixture is sprayed.

Alanesse? :?
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by Flytox » 03/11/12, 18:20

chatelot16 wrote:it makes me think of another problem: emulsions do not do good to the carburetor: the flow rate in the nozzle changes completely each time it passes water or fuel

I found it by fesant 2-stroke mixture with ethanol E85 ... ethanol does not dissolve the oil, only the 15% of gasoline that it contains dissolve the oil, but that does not allow to properly dissolve my 4% oil: result it makes a fairly stable dressing: the engines do not seize up, there is enough oil, but no adjustment of the carburetor is possible: everything works irregularly, sometimes it stalls sometimes it gets carried away ... sometimes it smokes


+1; There is a solution seen on a boat, the diesel and water are dosed then mixed by a split disc which turns like 7000 rpm in a very small space. The "fine" emulsion produced is sent to the injection pump which endures the torture. : Mrgreen: A kind of continuous production of Aquazole but without the surfactant additives etc ... (in the end the system is purged with pure diesel before shutdown) :P

On the return of the injection pump, there is a system for decanting the mixture and pumping so that each liquid reaches its respective tank.

For the proposed assembly, it should be possible to make the fine emulsion just at the level of the main jet of the carburetor. :!: Gasoline is still quite volatile, it will certainly find the limit between making an emulsion and starting to produce gas which could make handling .... even more unstable. (like vapor lock) : Cry:
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gildas
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by gildas » 03/11/12, 18:31

Flytox wrote:For the proposed assembly, it should be possible to make the fine emulsion just at the level of the main jet of the carburetor. :!: Gasoline is still quite volatile, it will certainly find the limit between making an emulsion and starting to produce gas which could make handling .... even more unstable. (like vapor lock) : Cry:


In any case, a mixture of 10% water and 90% diesel takes several minutes at room temperature. I did the test this afternoon in a jar (just mixed with stirring). After 10 minutes , we see the water reappear in the bottom.

The fuel should not be too hot.
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by Flytox » 03/11/12, 21:08

Gildas wrote:In any case, a mixture of 10% water and 90% diesel takes several minutes at room temperature. I did the test this afternoon in a jar (just mixed with stirring). After 10 minutes , we see the water reappear in the bottom.

The fuel should not be too hot.


The emulsion sees its water droplets grow larger before you see a line in the jar. At the end of a "moment" the nozzle will not want any more without it starting to do anything. AMHA agitation / mixing must be continuous.

The limit of fuel heating is the vapor lock (before 65 °?)
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