Go-Kart and HHO engine: Need a hand!

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Flytox
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by Flytox » 27/10/12, 20:15

Gildas wrote: Uh ... still more than 8 minutes at full speed for a single liter of gasoline-poor mix (25% gasoline and 75% water).
Results: After 8'20 "of operation at full speed
On the 1000 mL mixture, only 830 mL remains.

120 mL of gasoline and 50 mL of water were consumed.

Consumption is 20.4 mL / minute.



In the end, after 8 '20 ", (before you have to play on the various valves to keep the engine running and before stalling), the proportion of fluids in the tank has increased to approximately:

Water: 750 ml - 50 ml = 700 ml (700/830 => 84.3%;
Essence: 250ml -120ml = 130ml (130/830 => 15.6%;

Since this residual essence, deprived of its lighter fractions will not restart the engine ..... it could also count as consumed / fuzzy by this bad system for the energy balance ....

The consumption becomes 250ml / 500 seconds => 50 ml / minute. Not sure that it is very brilliant ..... So this single tank system heated with a "mixture" of water and gasoline is an aberration!
Do not distil the gasoline before passing it into the reactor, otherwise you will not be able to burn it completely : Mrgreen:
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gildas
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by gildas » 28/10/12, 17:16

Flytox wrote:Do not distil the gasoline before passing it into the reactor, otherwise you will not be able to burn it completely : Mrgreen:



So this diagram should be convincing (the air is preheated because there is no bubbler):


Image
(This scheme has been modified by me)

I directly connected the engine inlet to the output of a reactor that I designed with a larger section of gas passage, identical to the section of the nozzle of the original carburetor of the engine reused in this case the. In this adaptation, which is really the simplest that we can achieve the GEET PANTONE, all the air necessary for the constitution of the detonating mixture, passes into the reactor and is therefore no longer allowed directly into the engine and is fully used normal operation of the carburetor as if the reactor was not between him and the engine. This is quite suitable for small engines where each cylinder does not exceed too much 300 cm3, because beyond the size of the reactor would be too fast and it would be necessary to twin several reactor tubes to obtain a sufficient gas passage section given that it does not exceed must not exceed 1,5 mm of space between rod and tube. With all these assemblies, it is advantageous to preheat the air, because it too much, tends to prevent the rise in temperature of the reactor which is not very good.

So, this assembly is interesting for all small lawn mower engines

http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/paged ... David5.htm

It would be interesting to try with diesel (starting with gasoline) because the combustion is excellent in the configuration below:

http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/paged ... David8.htm
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by Flytox » 28/10/12, 22:17

Gildas wrote:So this diagram should be convincing (the air is preheated because there is no bubbler):

Image
(This scheme has been modified by me)


Yes, it becomes a gas engine and not gasoline (cracking gasoline to gas kind Makhonine?). All gasoline is balanced in the intake and not just a light or heavy fraction of gasoline. In this configuration there is no addition of water. On the other hand, the maximum power must be greatly reduced compared to the original engine, but the conso to lower powers may be interesting with in addition very few unburnt, particles and CO ... like engines gas.

As Mr David said in the link you gave, it would be nice to add another circuit to inject water ..... Pantoniser what! : Mrgreen:
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by Flytox » 28/10/12, 22:31

On reflection, there is a problem without adding water. When liquid gasoline is balanced on a hot surface ... it evaporates leaving a "micro deposit". By force, the micro-deposit will turn into a crust which will more or less block the rod space surrounding the reactor.

These deposits are at the origin of many breakdowns at the beginning of HDI cars. Since they have standardized stuff in gasoline to limit these deposits but not sure it is fully resolved. Macro if you have any info ... Help! : Mrgreen:
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by Karltechno96 » 31/10/12, 03:14

Thank you all, I'll try to get by and I'll do some tests, I'll let you know;)
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by gildas » 31/10/12, 11:23

Hello,
Just one important detail: A kart is also a good choice for water dopingbecause the engine will often in full charge which will promote fuel economy and depopulation!

It should be kept in mind that the more the engine is under load, the more the doping efficiency is important (difference in consumption up to 40-50% true but you really have to "nag" on the engine, pipes red

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post202958.html#202958

An example on gasoline engine:
http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/reali ... ails41.htm
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by gildas » 31/10/12, 11:58

Encountered problem:
This issue of managing depression is a recurring problem ...

We should find a way to regulate it.
To summarize; One to 2 intake circuits:
- The main one, that of the origin of the rather free vehicle upstream of the throttle valve or the air intake of a diesel.
- The pantone circuit(Edit gildas: downstream of the butterfly) or doping with water, preferably with its own air filter. It has a very small FIXED diameter.

https://www.econologie.com/forums/montage-pa ... t3577.html
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by gildas » 03/11/12, 12:13

Image
Flytox wrote:On reflection, there is a problem without adding water. When the liquid gasoline is balanced on a hot surface ... it evaporates leaving a "micro deposit".


It is always possible to mix 90% gasoline (or diesel) and 10% water.
If the tank of the kart is designed to constantly stir the mixture with a propeller driven by a small electric motor (of course, this one not immersed!) It will remain homogeneous.
The gas oil-water mixture remains in emulsion long enough
in the carb barrel to be burned.
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by chatelot16 » 03/11/12, 12:41

mixing the mixture will not change the physical law of the distillation

the most volatile product always evaporates faster than the less volatile

the only solution to have a constant composition: to minimize the volume to boil, and feed it constantly to maintain the constant level

the boiling volume will have a water concentration well above the concentration of the mixture that feeds it but at least this concentration will be constant

it's just an explanation of the principle of distillation ... that does not prevent me from thinking that the whole of this system is a nest with a problem of which I do not see the interest

I'm worried that this mixture of water and fuel is a trick to make a miscalculation, in the same way I do a test of 10minute and I measure the level in the bubbler before and after

it is enough to forget that at the beginning the fuel evaporates faster than the water to make a computation completely must give a super yield!
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by gildas » 03/11/12, 16:37

chatelot16 wrote:mixing the mixture will not change the physical law of distillation

the most volatile product always evaporates faster than the less volatile


Hello Chatelot,

There is no distillation in the diagram above, fuel supply of the reactor is only by the carburetor.
There is no bubbler / distillery connected to the intake, hence the interest of sending water with fuel.
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