credible explanations of doping in the water! IMPORTANT!!

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79114
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 24/03/11, 12:00

Your last messages are completely off topic and do not concern the explanation of water doping / reactor operation / ionization!

This ninth patent replica of the pantone speaks of improved cavitation and ionization thanks to a rod pierced over its entire length, to see what it brings: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... FCDw3f.pdf

Image

It is possible that these holes, if they are placed and we have judicious sizes, can create an acoustic resonance ... and can be lead to a phenomenon of sonoluminescence ???

Specialists in acoustics, fluid mechanics or gas or resonance, you are welcome ... we obviously have not yet understood everything!

Details here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/etude-de-t ... t4944.html
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 02/08/12, 22:52

Found this very interesting doc which makes the link between the ionization of a gas and bubbling (what a bubbler from Gillier Pantone or Pantone does)


https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... lKWEoU.pdf


Nothing clear on the net what it means by "neutral centers" and the concept of "ionic mobility" given in mm? : Mrgreen:
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
plasmanu
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2847
Registration: 21/11/04, 06:05
Location: The 07170 Lavilledieu viaduct
x 180




by plasmanu » 03/08/12, 05:56

Very interesting.

It gives me an idea.
And if the bubbler was waterproof and supplied with air from the bottom with an adjustable micro nozzles.
Like the compressor blowgun in a cylindrical bubbler all in height.
The compressed air is sent from below and the charged air is recovered above and towards the reactor.
By adjusting the air flow on the accelerator pedal.

This requires a small compressor and a cylinder of pressurized buffer air.
0 x
"Not to see Evil, not to hear Evil, not to speak Evil" 3 little monkeys Mizaru
User avatar
elephant
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6646
Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
x 7




by elephant » 03/08/12, 12:01

What for, exactly?
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 03/08/12, 13:36

One of the problems is that the air charge obtained contains a positive and a negative part even if we only see their difference in the end. Bloch does not say how it is done physically to privilege a load or the other nor what interest that could have.

How to keep this charge on the reactor bubbler course or even further the cylinder head? Do you need insulating or conductive conduits to impose a type of load? :P
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 04/08/12, 14:40

I visited the Schnell factory in Germany, which manufactures "dual fuel" engines for anaerobic digestion units, on the basis of diesel engines converted for this use.

There is injection of a little fuel to "light", then the gas burns.

Curious thing: the biomethane is wet at the exit of the digester. The first operation consists in "drying" the air by cooling to + 5 °: a "beast" air conditioning. Then the biomethane passes through a carbon filter to extract the H²S it contains. And finally, it is "turbocharged" before being cooled again (air / water exchanger first - to recover these calories -, and then air / air) before discharge (to increase compression) ...

With electrical yields of 42 to 44%.

They have a fairly extensive research section (which I did not visit), with expert engineers (they are looking for an "engineer specializing in piston heads" - among about twenty job offers posted in the reception hall !).

And therefore never observed any measurable positive effect linked to this humidity of the air ???

On the other hand, they have developed a microturbine on the exhaust, after the turbo, which still scratches some 20 or 30 kW on groups of 250 kW! At 49 laps!
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 04/08/12, 15:47

a little humidity has a positive effect, but a little, not too much

if your methane engine has a drying system it can be simply because there is too much humidity in the biogas ... with drying by just sufficient cooling it can stay just right

it would be a shame to dry excessively at too low a temperature

drying could be done by condensation in the cooler after compression ... except that the compression of this water vapor costs energy to the compressor ... it may be more economical to dry before compression

but that is discussed: your engine has a simple turbocharger without recovery of mechanical energy from the exhaust: so in principle the energy of the exhaust is much greater than the compression energy, it is necessary to limit the speed of the turbo by a discharge valve ... so compress water vapor in the intake to make it condense in the cooler does not cost anything

there is not only the problem of energy, there is also that a complete condensation, also condenses the corrosive product, and that is perhaps that the main goal
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 04/08/12, 17:48

chatelot16 wrote:a little humidity has a positive effect, but a little, not too much

if your methane engine has a drying system it can be quite simply because there is too much humidity in the biogas ...


Surely: leaving the methanization tank, it must have a humidity level corresponding to saturation at 40 °. Maybe not quite because the hat must condense ...

But is it more than the result of doping which is done all the same at a fairly high temperature ???
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 04/08/12, 23:48

Hello Did67
Did67 wrote:Curious thing: biomethane is wet at the outlet of the digester.


And therefore never observed any measurable positive effect linked to this humidity of the air ???


AMHA the amount of humidity does not change much the performance of petrol, gas and diesel engines, on the other hand the electrified water droplets would be able to make the difference.
Everything is in the way of swallowing this water. And if we don't produce these electrified droplets (like with a Gillier Pantone) ... we don't see a difference.

Chatelot16
there is not only the problem of energy, there is also that a complete condensation, also condenses the corrosive product, and that is perhaps that the main goal

Water + H2S = corrosive product !?
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 05/08/12, 10:45

What is certain: the motors in question do not like H²S!

But this gas is absorbed after dehydration, in a column of activated carbon.

NB: Note that these engines make, in a generator of an anaerobic digestion station, the equivalent of 3 to 5 million kilometers! (lifespan from 7 to 10 years, 24 hours a day, 24 days a year). Normally without heavy maintenance. So it deserves to pamper them a little.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 108 guests