Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
pedrodelavega
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by pedrodelavega » 31/01/20, 15:22

Christophe wrote:Billions from their commercial margins (or public subsidies: it's more common than you think) ...

And what do you mean there?

that if they could avoid cutting their margins by billions spent on r & t, there is no reason why they should not do it ... shareholders are asking for it.
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by Christophe » 31/01/20, 15:38

I already answered above ... Water injection-motor-pantone / pollution-en-co2-of-engine-pantone-t3687-40.html # p378645

I'll tell you otherwise: economically it is completely unacceptable to develop a new system at a few hundred euros which obtains better results than systems already in place complicated at several thousands of euros ... and where we have already put millions into it : Mrgreen:

After some manufacturers have developed water injection, this is the case of MAN on large boats as anti-NOx: consume less-car / ham-and-water-injection-man anti-nox-in-the-motor-marine-t14241.html

But the temperatures reached on these large diesel engines, at very low RPM, are rather low and do not allow effective thermolysis ... (see not at all)
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by pedrodelavega » 31/01/20, 17:11

Christophe wrote:I'll tell you otherwise: economically it is completely unacceptable to develop a new system at a few hundred euros which obtains better results than systems already in place complicated at several thousands of euros ... and where we have already put millions into it : Mrgreen:
And yes it would increase profitability, .... it would be a shame .... :? : roll: :? : roll: :? : roll:
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by Christophe » 31/01/20, 18:17

Not the profitability of the entire economic chain that has an interest in exchanging the most added value ... lost therefore!
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by Janic » 31/01/20, 18:20

there is a great rule in the industry, it is to spend only the minimum to estimate the validity of a product. And as much as possible to favor (in secret) the "independent" companies which are subsidized to wipe the plasters. For example land and marine wind turbines, or plaster wipers, full of hopes, have been taken over by large groups who have virtually nothing to pay.
As long as the Pantone type systems have not reached an industrializable and reliable stage (since viable it is already the case) the industrialists will wait still before they can then take the chestnuts out of the fire (except BMW which seeks not to not be outdone by its future competitors after their immobilization with the electric.)
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by izentrop » 31/01/20, 21:06

Christophe wrote: economically it is completely unacceptable to develop a new system at a few hundred euros which obtains better results than systems already in place complicated at several thousands of euros ... and where we have already put millions into it : mrgreen
Bah! Like: The new tractor cut with Elon's threshing hook is a counter-example: https://www.presse-citron.net/deja-plus ... ybertruck/
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by Janic » 01/02/20, 08:21

Bah! like: The new tractor cut with Elon's threshing hook is a counter-example
Tesla's brilliant coup could not have been done with lead-acid batteries and without lithium batteries. This is called a combination of technological circumstances, which has nothing to do with a system like Pantone which is a simple functional improvement of thermal systems.

@christophe
http://quelfutur.org/archive/moteurpantone.html

It's a bit light, isn't it?

They have NOTHING DONE EXCEPT to analyze MY WORK (without ever contacting me elsewhere ... and that's a shame) ... but overall I quite agree with what they say .. .except that they are not based on any clean work ... A little too easy therefore the criticism!


Not only is it light, but false out of ignorance. He presents the Gillier system (with water) as LE Pantone who didn't use it. First blunder that shows that this guy knows nothing about it.
Then he has a purely theoretical, abstract vision, not taking into account the multiple on-site tests, demonstrating the effectiveness of the system by respecting a few basic basic rules, to show its possibilities and limits (such as the temperature level to the exhaust that you point out). So it's a shoddy job like all those who, precisely, never get their hands dirty.
Otherwise you have done a good analysis of the reasons which make its application as it is on the industrial level. Your patent (albeit a gas plant, literally and figuratively : Cheesy: ) tried to meet the maximum of these conditions in question.
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by pedrodelavega » 02/02/20, 18:51

Christophe wrote:Not the profitability of the entire economic chain that has an interest in exchanging the most added value ... lost therefore!
If we lower the cost price, profitability increases.
If your system is less expensive and more efficient than another technology, manufacturer "A" will have more profitability by using it against a manufacturer "B", (or he can lower the selling price for the same profitability and scratching market share.)

Christophe wrote:They have NOTHING DONE EXCEPT to analyze MY WORK (without ever contacting me elsewhere ... and that's a shame) ... but overall I quite agree with what they say
If you agree with what they say ...
they are quite a mistake.

If the investment is only a few hundred euros, why did you not repeat the experience to consolidate the file?
Is your car equipped with it?

Janic wrote:Not only is it light, but false out of ignorance.
What is wrong there:
"The amount of oxygen in the exhaust gases immediately makes you jump. Indeed, there is normally 21% oxygen in the air. If 14 or 15% remains in the exhaust, it is is that only a third of it was consumed. It would therefore be a very lean combustion, that is to say with a lot of excess air. However, in this case we come up against two impossibilities of operation:
With such richness (about 3 times too much air), the ignition of the gases in the cylinder cannot be done normally and the engine cannot run, the limit being about 1,6 times too much air,
With this excess air and the amount of fuel consumed, this 4 cc 300-stroke engine running at 3 revolutions per minute should "swallow" more than 3.000 m40 of air per hour. However, at this speed, such an engine can never absorb more than 3 m27 (details).
The results of the analysis are therefore false. There was certainly some air mixing with the exhaust gases during the measurement. "

http://quelfutur.org/archive/moteurpant ... l#condense


If we want evidence, we find only testimonies ... but a testimony:
"In our test, the Pantone" Spad "type system did not bring any gain
consumption or power.
Another test, carried out with the same protocol in Sarthe, on a tractor whose
owner was persuaded to save, came to the same conclusion. "

http://www.synagri.com/synagri/moteur-t ... le-du-spad
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by GuyGadebois » 02/02/20, 18:53

How do you explain the fact that we know how to make engines and / or automobiles that consume practically nothing but that we don't manufacture them?
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Re: Pollution (in CO2) of the pantone engine




by pedrodelavega » 02/02/20, 18:54

GuyGadebois wrote:How do you explain the fact that we know how to make engines and / or automobiles that consume practically nothing but that we don't manufacture them?
That is to say?
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