pantone process

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974




by Christophe » 27/02/06, 20:41

gil67 wrote:In 2001 in France, the short sector hvb, nobody interested, I was the first to want to set up a complete short supply, it did not work because of producers, it's another story. Today, it is the users who are forum olio ... share their experience.

Pantone appeared in 2001, I think. The tractor No. 22 later, yet years later we are still at the same point.

Too bad.


: Evil: : Evil: : Evil: I see red there !!!

1) The you push a little ...To say that we are at the same point as in 2001 is pure bullshit ! And it is to put to shame all the pages that I wrote for the advanced of the system on the site (and therefore for you the readers of econo)!

If it could have progressed faster, it is surely NOT THE FAULT OF THE FARMER OF TRACTOR 22 who has something else to do than present his tractor to the curious and profiteers of all kinds! Especially since there is NOTHING exceptional to SEE .... If it does not move it is indeed the fault of OUR DECISION MAKERS (since a dozen guys from PSA went to see it ... ) and the human mentality of most of the actors around the pantone which consists of SYSTEMATICALLY appropriating the discoveries of Mr David and to a lesser extent the comments that are said on this site /forum.... and of course without feedback for the initiators!

I would not cite an example but follow my look ...

They make butter for themselves (so much the better for them if they don't mind selling something not approved ...) and you think they would return the elevator? Of course not !

Finally all the better on one side because it diffuses the system ... but at what price (what image do they give?)?

2) Were you the first in 1 to promote short-term HVB? So take ... a great example to illustrate what I just said above. I strongly advise you to read this page and report: https://www.econologie.com/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=2369

And yet this does not speak of the works of Alain Juste and his predecessors which date from the early 1990s ...

Maybe all this will teach you humility .... well, I hope so.

Word of another Alsatian!
0 x
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 27/02/06, 21:39

babache8 wrote:It is always easier to share for those who have nothing !!!!

Exactly I exchange my wife !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974




by Christophe » 27/02/06, 22:40

PITMIX wrote:Exactly I exchange my wife !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:


-> Hop! Copy & paste in Top 2 Ball Jokes : Cheesy:
0 x
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 27/02/06, 23:03

: Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: :D :D 8) 8)
0 x
gil67
x 17




by gil67 » 27/02/06, 23:54

You didn't understand everything.
Obviously the pioneering work reported on the pages of Quant'homme are remarkable and these have proven the potential of Pantone.

You too see you realize that there is a basic problem, since the time you read, I know that it makes you curl your whiskers that some use the pantone, both for internships and Sp. ..

As for hvb, I did not pretend to be the one who developed anything, Alain Juste or even Guy Nègre and others in France are the precursors of the engine part. I'm talking to you about the whole sector with supply, technique and everything else, based on what was done in Germany. You surely saw what was done there, when you were still Alsatian. I was talking to you about the organization of the sector.
Reread what I wrote and you will see that I did not pretend to be the first to have developed anything. Very simply, I tried to show the feasibility of the short chain, which was otherwise not feasible.

As for humility, I learned it when a student, we repaired old trucks on Clermond ferrand helped for an old man who has seven bypasses in the heart and one lung less.

I do not appropriate anything at all and I will not teach you a lesson, you are sad enough to see that you work like crazy without having the slightest return.

As for design engineers from manufacturers or equipment manufacturers, you know as well as I do, to have friends who work there, that they no longer have the budgets that would allow them to develop a reliable system operating on the Pantone principle.

When I say that we or you are as you like, to the same point as in 2001, it is that Pantone is achieving an 80% reduction in fuel consumption. What we can do on our systems is a reduction of 20 to 30%. Or an improvement that can be obtained by optimizing the base of the engine. We all did this on an engine for the Mell Scharathon.
So, instead of everyone trying something, you have to put a base that works, especially since it works on tractor No. 22.

I will not go back to your publications or your patent, we will talk about it if you come back to Alsace.

I can also tell you how I have it, but not that you then say that I am playing it, organized my Pantone.
I divided the system into several functions, as we learn at school, I invent nothing. I used what is already done in the fuel heater, gas diffuser etc ...
It is not useful to talk about the reactor itself since you are the one who knows the most.
For heating and maintaining the temperature we use what is proposed for hvb, I do not go into details. For the diffusion of gas, we take the two diffusers intended for LPG and mounted on my engine. This is the old LPG vacuum system. The diffusers are mounted as a spacer between the carburetor and the pipe. The advantage is that it is possible to favor the suction quite easily.
For the experiment, one goes up in temperature and one maintains it using a heating resistance, thus one can bubble before starting the engine. For the rest, it's classic, except that it was planned to mount the reactors as close as possible to the cylinder head. Of course it is a static assembly.


Another thing, for the supply of the reactor, we take the famous "mist" injector used as a mixture cooler on overfed cars. It can be configured according to the motor load.

For the solar version of the heater, a cylindrical solar parabola is used.

The problem is that it costs a little more, and I have a family to feed, so it takes a little longer. Besides that I also have to build an eco-center, so it takes time.

Last thing, I also have a small ultra light chassis to put a 125ccm3 pantonized.

No still a little thing, do not face Christophe if we tickle you a little, as you are a star now we can room you a little : Mrgreen: : Lol:
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 28/02/06, 01:13

Hello Gil 57
You seem to follow the panton from a shake, probably before me, if you think that we are not on the right track
or that we are getting lost, I am ready to listen to your advice, your version or your experiences, it is the only way to make things happen, it is not that we are mirroring ourselves in the tractor 22 that the we are going to arrive, given the number of experimenters who are mostly outside the forum , we hear results, which are very variable from 20% to more than 50% and often the same manufacturers have made several assemblies on different vehicles and the results are from double to double and not even zero results.
When the 80% announcement by panton has been validated
as for the tractor 22 someone to check?
In general, most of those who have made montages arrive
20 to 30% is the norm, and I don't see why it should
bust the numbers? , already if you are able to do 30% permanently road and city I find that pretty good, for two pieces of hose and a cup of water.
If you have this recipe and can't afford to build, we'll listen to you!

Andre
0 x
gil67
x 17




by gil67 » 28/02/06, 08:35

Andre wrote:...
Andre

Hello André,
Indeed I have been for a long time.
I do not hesitate to give lessons, simply, when I discovered the Pantone, I printed read and summarized everything I could find on the Quant'homme pages. I also tried to find solutions to solve the small problems that had the first experimenters. With the publication of the results of tractor n ° 22, for me things were clear: it works, the performance is excellent, this guy to find what I would have taken years to find, if ever. We absolutely had to start from its assembly and adapt it to our machines. In any so-called open community is based on sharing, the work done on tractor No. 22 would have been offered to all.
In this case, it is impossible to reach the owner, Quant'homme verouille.
At the time, I was convinced that 3 years later, the pantone would be accessible to everyone. I was only interested in the non-reactor part. In other words, heating the water, controlling the injection into the reactor, David suggested using an injector and mounting it on my v8 rover.
I don't pretend to say how to do it, in practice, I'm just saying that David's work would have made it possible to move much faster if we had organized ourselves differently. It is the fault of no one, especially not Christophe, especially since he has never been stingy with information.
When I said that we are at the same stage as at the beginning of 2001, it is that many are still the handymen who are trying to see if it works when we could be at it: I arrive at 75% with the initial assembly of something or something.
Christophe had great ideas like the Tour de France and many others. They must now be implemented.
An example, there is a Rally that starts from Germany and arrives in Jordan. The rules are simple: cars that are more than 20 years old or that are worth less than 2 euros, the night should not cost more than 000 euros, 10 cars per team. One can imagine the participation of 3 pantonized cars prepared by region or by working group. This allows you to share the work and make it more fun. The big names in the auto industry come from mechanical sports.
We should organize ourselves around a common project, pool resources and spit in our hands.
Again, I take up what Christophe proposed, I invent nothing.

The version of Sp ... seems to be interesting since the drop on some tractors would be 50%, knowing that this is not an example of sobriety, but all the same, the improvement is very noticeable. Maybe it should go on this mount.

Last thing, you have to know if you want to experiment or make a process reliable and viable and above all convince our decision-makers. If it is the first one is good, if it is the second, it would surely be necessary to put more resources into it. To have more means, you have to create or place yourself on an event and federate, which Christophe proposed.

Again, I'm not doing any technical lessons, just organize ourselves around an event. A bit like the Sharaton mell races or the soap races or the rally, Germany-Jordan. We can also add the use of hvb instead of diesel.

I do not want to screw the area or upset the sensitivities, but I would like it to move forward, my chassis should be ready by summer and I have no engine, my v8 is way too big.
: Mrgreen:

It is Gil67, Gil for the first name and 67 for the department, Bas-Rhin, in Alsace, Strasbourg, it is better known.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974




by Christophe » 28/02/06, 13:01

-> GIL67

1) Uh ... Guy Negre has NOTHING AT ALL to do with HVB ... he is the air car .... I would say no more about the guy since he already threatened with defamation lawsuits.

2) "is that Pantone achieves an 80% reduction in fuel consumption" This is a PURE FOUTAISE! Apparently you haven't read all of the econology pages. I recommend "pantone et moi" and "About Pantone".
This guy is a "little" crook who sucks in physics or mechanics (at least that's the image he left me)

3) "do not face christophe if we tickle you a little, as you are a star now we can room you a little" I do not consider myself at all as such very far from the! For the chambering however ok as long as it remains "friendly" (not something like that: you don't deserve to be an engineer ... as I have already read ...)
0 x
gil67
x 17




by gil67 » 28/02/06, 16:12

Econology wrote:-... For the chambering ok however as long as it remains "friendly" (not something like that: you don't deserve to be an engineer ... as I have already read ...)

no, on the contrary, I would say that you have the mind of an engineer.
If it seems to me that GN had something with the hvb engine, but it's been a while. For the wind engine, air forgiveness ... : Idea:
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 28/02/06, 16:51

Hello, Gill 67
I understood that's why I put you 57 Moselle
Even in Quebec we know that

The speech becomes flat and arid, if you want it to go ahead do something don't wait for the others to do it.
It was my young boy who made the first assembly on a small engine in 2001 which impressed me was that it worked in closed circuit for several minutes, it is there that I was interested.

When the decision maker does not need a handyman like us to know, they already know but the decision makers are not those who work in engine laboratories, they live in castles, and do not watch to know how it works , they have only one objective the $, For the rest it leaves the politicians
take care to calm the good people they have everything for them
TF1 newspapers ect .. and it is the same here we have the newspaper radio press Canada .. no there is no sensure, but all the staff who work in these boxes has been selected by their way of thinking and their political option, they only have the right to think like their boss.
To say radio padlock.
Do you know that your government and very greedy that it makes you pay a tax on absence higher than what we pay per liter here
regular $ 0,92 per liter and as you asked for 100LL $ 1,22
last week.
When a guy tells me that he has been following this for 4 years and has not tried a little experiment on a mower engine or other, he drags it everywhere and 3 pieces of pipe too, after you understand and you discuss, of some thing that you experienced.

It is not necessary to (bulge) with a V8 that also it drags everywhere and we sell them to you by weight, but it sucks to experiment.

To make experiments the best assembly is a small generator, of 8HP

Everyone on the forum does not have the tools or the ability to do montages, but many dig on sites and transmit their research, others have ideas and they transmit them too, and that is constructive.

Andre
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 137 guests