Doping water Motor: thermodynamic

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Capt_Maloche
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by Capt_Maloche » 11/04/08, 09:56

Not in the program, but I already have air ionizers without fans (MHD type LIFTER) to have fun :D, it's for the next episodes

in the short term,
- Additional injection of water into the blue flame burner
- the mixture of 10% explosive fuel (SP95 gasoline) in my next full of diesel
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by Capt_Maloche » 13/05/08, 10:25

I come back on the wire of this post to broadcast the tests which will be used as reference to my next tests of water injection on the engine 1.5 DCI 70 of my clio company

here are the benchmark results posted today in "fuel economy thanks to acetone"
HERE IS !

I reiterated my little "test" of diesel cradocerie

Here is what I got the 24 April 2008:

reminder: clioIII 1.5 DCI 70cv, fuel 90% "normal" diesel + 10% petrol SP95

I mounted on the muffler a 30x30cm cotton cloth fixed with a serflex to "see" what I reject with this mixture
Mount 30sesondes Image
Recto, beuark !! after 25 km !!
Image
In short, after 25Km (work trip), ...


and here is the result of that day 13 may 2008 after riding 400Km with fuel 98% BP ULTIMATE

It should be noted that the tank is 50L and that I filled it with 43L, so there was 7L of GO normal mix + 10% essence SP95

EITHER 7x100 / 50 = 14% of the previous mixture itself composed of 10% of SP95, ie 0.7L of SP95

The test is therefore carried out with a mixture of 98% of GO BP ULTIMATE + 1.4% of SP 95
Identical journey, cold start, 25km with a bit of plug at the end of the course


On the left the "statement" of this day, on the right that of April 24
Straight
Image
To
Image

What I can confirm right away:
Despite the use of GO said improved BP ULTIMATE, the cloth of the same size from the same old sheet ^ _ ^ is frankly more disgusting which confirms the improvement of the combustion of diesel with a more volatile additive, here SP 95

I would do the same test on the next full tank with "normal" diesel

REFLECTION FOR THE FOLLOWING TESTS:
The use of water vapor or finely vaporized water should have the same effect provided that it can be dosed in proportion to the amount of fuel ...

Water or water vapor is brought to the cracking temperature in the cylinder during compression at 35bar and 800 ° C and during the explosion at 1600 ° C
Even without gain in consumption, pollution should be reduced, to follow ...


I am looking for an effective way to spray initially the equivalent of 1L / h of water at the engine suction in order to "demonstrate" the effectiveness of the water injection on pollution
Ultrasonic sprayers only allow 0.2L / h, I have to invent something :D
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by Remundo » 13/05/08, 11:11

Hi Captain!

Nice little tissues, you must have had a big cold :D

That the injection of water limits the soot, it is very probable: soot and black smoke form at full load when the temperature is very high and that the air is missing (roughly, when you accelerate like wild ones : Cheesy:This can also be seen very well on construction equipment, for example a buldozzer that rubs against a large pile of stones. Diesel is very prone to this phenomenon because of their design, their temperature of PMH is higher than that of gasoline engines.

Fuel molecules crackle and leave carbon, the "powder" of which is capable of fixing more or less unburned hydrocarbons (HC). This operation is very degraded.

The injection of water will on the one hand lower the temperatures, and on the other hand, could reattach the carbon via C + H2O-> CH2O (formation of methana, itself more reactive to combustion: CH2O + O2 -> CO2 + H2O).

But with all these injections of water, the danger is to degrade the combustion to the point of producing a lot of HC by lowering the reaction rates with temperature. You have to put "just enough".

Good trials Captain!
Last edited by Remundo the 13 / 05 / 08, 12: 47, 1 edited once.
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by Remundo » 13/05/08, 11:18

Ah, a little Belgian article ... : Cheesy:
http://www.febiac.be/public/content.aspx?FID=530

I forgot too, is there a FAP on your Clio? If there is one, it changes a lot about the interpretations : Idea:
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by Capt_Maloche » 13/05/08, 12:19

Belgian appreciates diesel
: Cheesy:

No, I do not have a FAP, one wonders why ...

By the way, on this subject, could someone with a DPF do this little "opacimetry" test for comparison?
Last edited by Capt_Maloche the 20 / 05 / 08, 14: 46, 1 edited once.
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by Capt_Maloche » 20/05/08, 14:44

To stay in the subject

Chemists sometimes refer jokingly to water with a scholarly (and justified) name such as dihydrogen monoxide in parodies of serious scientific research that present this product as deadly dangerous and to banish.


QUESTIONS : Whereas the thermolysis of water is only complete at 3000 ° C, but begins at 700 ° C

if we inject water vapor into the combustion chamber of a recent diesel whose T ° is around 600 ° C at the end of compression and whose T ° during the explosion is 1900 ° C

How much water in the form of steam must be injected (in% or kg) to totally evaporate the GO sprayed, in order to obtain combustion with a minimum of unburnt?


Not easy, because 600 ° C is beyond the T ° of auto ignition of gas oil; nevertheless, we could see that a more volatile additive made it possible to reduce the unburned ...

Flute, I have a job! I'll postpone that
Others have already done it, at what%? test results? ...
AQUAZOLE (or EEG [Water Emulsion in Gas Oil]): 1995

Composition:
fuel consisting of a stabilized emulsion of water and diesel.

Advantages: reduction of:
NOx from 15 to 30%
fumes from 30 to 80%
particles from 10 to 80%
2 consumption%


Why is it not on the market?
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by I Citro » 20/05/08, 15:51

Capt_Maloche wrote:To stay in the subject

Chemists sometimes refer jokingly to water with a learned (and justified) name as Hydrogen monoxide in parodies of serious scientific research that present this product as deadly dangerous and to banish.


: Lol: Extra, I'll get out.

Others have already done it, at what%? test results? ...
AQUAZOLE (or EEG [Water Emulsion in Gas Oil]): 1995

Composition:
fuel consisting of a stabilized emulsion of water and diesel.

Advantages: reduction of:
NOx from 15 to 30%
fumes from 30 to 80%
particles from 10 to 80%
2 consumption%


From memory, they put up to 30% water. It seemed to me that the current gas oils marketed by ELF (at the time) or TOTAL (today) contained less water.
I think this should increase the profits of the tanker (the water is not at the price of diesel). But I can not certify it ...

Why is it not on the market?


Aquazole 30% water was, I think, not compatible with all engines (very high pressure injections, TDI, HDI ...)

At the time, I looked for an additive that could allow me to make my own "aquazole" myself.
A chemist friend told me about "GAMLEN" a product used to clean oil tankers ... but I did not follow up.
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by Christophe » 27/03/09, 15:10

citro wrote:From memory, they put up to 30% water. It seemed to me that the current gas oils marketed by ELF (at the time) or TOTAL (today) contained less water.


No it was between 5 and 15%.
This doc is about 11,5%: https://www.econologie.com/experimentati ... t-468.html

citro wrote:Aquazole 30% water was, I think, not compatible with all engines (very high pressure injections, TDI, HDI ...)


I think it is rather for reasons of lack of stability over time and extra cost of active tension ... mandatory to this stability ...

Now, paranoid mode, maybe all the diesel sold is aquazole...
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by Capt_Maloche » 27/03/09, 15:13

I resume the discussion started off-topic on FFI concerning the injection of water: https://www.econologie.com/forums/tests-inde ... 8-860.html

this to say that it seems more interesting finally in variable mode to inject water in the form of micro droplets, to reduce the T ° of the flame and limit NOx while maintaining an optimal fresh air volume (O2)
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by Christophe » 27/03/09, 15:14

I copy here, interesting remarks aboutexplanations of the causes and effects of doping we had in the subject FFI here:

Christophe wrote:(...) I do not understand pkoi we do not see more mounting HVB + doping water ...

Explanation: a water doping permanently decimates the engine by converting the soot into ... hydrogen :) by the well-known reaction of "water on hot carbon"

But valid and credible explanations are not enough to convince ...


Capt_Maloche wrote:+ 3 000 000 000% for steam doping

Capt_Maloche wrote:EXPLANATION:

the combustion of oil products are mainly CO2 and water vapor

RECALL:
perfect combustion reaction GO (nitrogen is not present)
C2H16 34 + = 49 2 O32 CO2 + 34 H2O

The recirculation of exhaust gas allows:
- Firstly the flame temperature reduction below the threshold of 1300 ° C to no longer produce NOx
- Secondly, an increase in mixing rate (mixture) fuel / oxidant in the heart of the flame
- and especially the injection of water vapor resulting from the combustion of fuel oil in the heart of the flame

By cons, it is almost certain that the nozzle promotes the conversion of monoxide by water vapor. This conversion takes place in the gas phase according to the reversible equation
CO + H2O <> CO2 + H2

We also undoubtedly produce "water gas" which is a synthesis gas produced by the action of water on incandescent coal (carbon) or coke. The reaction is as follows: H2O + C = H2 + CO

We can also ask ourselves the following question:
The water vapor begins its thermal dissociation (thermolysis of water) from 800 ° C: 2H²O + Energy = 2H² + O²

The temperature of the flame is not homogeneous, hotter in the center and more and more "cold" towards the outside, the "average temperature measured" on the assembly is 1000 ° C with an estimated maximum of 1600 ° C in the center (yellow flame, hence the few ppm of NOx measured) and a minimum below 900 ° C in the boundary layer (hence the few ppm of CO measured)

The thermolysis of water in the heart of the flame (dissociation and combustion) has a zero energy balance in the hearth, but the "explosive" combustion of hydrogen allows the complete vaporization of the droplets of fuel in suspension in the flame (origin unburnt VOCs), especially in the periphery,
where mounting allows re maximum circulation,
where unburned are traditionally produced on traditional oil burner flame

On CO:
CO:
Here this undesirable gas resulting from the combustion of carbonaceous material under conditions

Specific incomplete combustion. Oxygenation of the home is insufficient to burn

completely the gas formed from the material, but the reaction is quite exothermic

to raise and maintain the temperature above 950 ° C. Carbon monoxide is formed

then preferably carbon dioxide, according to the Boudouard reaction.

Image
The variation of this standard reaction enthalpy Delta 298 K is r H ° = 172,3 1-kJ.mol

This reaction is endothermic, it is favored by an increase in

temperature

metastability below 950 ° C


Christophe wrote:Here is the link referring to Maloche's quote: https://www.econologie.com/une-chaudiere ... -3830.html


Christophe wrote:Hey Maloche (and others), talking about the explanation of doping, you saw this: https://www.econologie.com/makhonine-exp ... -3187.html ?
Linked Topic: https://www.econologie.com/forums/le-fonctio ... t2356.html


Christophe wrote:
Capt_Maloche wrote:the article does not detail the process, nor does it mention water injection


It was an "alternative" fuel, fischer tropsh before its time and in France ... A full article here: https://www.econologie.com/makhonine-car ... es-66.html

No, if I remember well there is no water injection but the effects are likely to be similar to a water injection

Review the legends of this image

Image

I begin:

The explosion being slower extends during the motor race ...


And the water would not have the function, by chance, of:
a) slow down the kinetics of combustion
b) relax in vapor form


So, did makhonine fuel “original” contain a low% water? Either voluntarily or for lack of "refinement"?

Frankly I believe that the "mystery" of water doping has been solved since 2006 ... we add to this, the theory of the ionization of water vapor, confirmed by experimentation and the loop is complete ...

What is missing is the desire for development to better control the phenomenon! It is pkoi in some, it works very well and not in others ...
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