Doping, no results on the dyno: explanation?

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
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Doping, no results on the dyno: explanation?




by Christophe » 02/10/07, 11:58

For some time I have a lot of questions in private about the non-functioning of a tractor bench. I copy / paste the last exchanges:


Question wrote:I work on the pantone motor installed on the tractors. One can see on the internet that people who install a pantone motor on tractors guarantees 20 to 30% fuel economy.

However, last year the school had mounted a pantone motor on a tractor and after passing test, there was no difference in consumption. I read on your site that you had the same experience.

So I would like to understand why it does not work on tractors?



My answer wrote:On the contrary, it works better on tractors than cars.

If it works on tractors in real conditions ... but that does not work on the test bench.
What does it mean? Simply that the test bench method is unreliable ... and yes, a test bench does NOT reproduce the actual conditions.

A bench test = fixed and constant speed is not the actual conditions of use. In labor, the load varies in permanence! Tractor benches do not allow dynamic tests.

Engineers should review their methodology ...


The reflection remains obviously open ...

Here are 3 tests done by professionals:

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joay
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by joay » 09/10/07, 11:06

bjr all,

On the contrary, I think that the test bench is more reliable than in the tractor's working conditions, since the consumption may vary according to the soil moisture, but also with the structure of the soil, which is not homogeneous. and also the driver.

In real condition, the tractor is svt in steady state, for example if we put the hand accelerator 1700 tr ac a tool that pulls tp no problem,
In addition, I think the best way to measure consumption is logically with constant regimes.

I may be testing on a tractor with a pantone engine that would earn 20 30% economy, I'll keep you informed of the rest of the case.

If you have already carried out tests and have obtained positive or negative results, I am interested.
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by Christophe » 09/10/07, 11:17

joay wrote:If you have already carried out tests and have obtained positive or negative results, I am interested.


Everything is here: Tractor Doping Press review

I doubt that you have "good" results at the level of the passage on bench. No one has ever had a significant one (except a few%).

Again I insist and I ask a question: What matters? A curve on a bench or the annual energy bill of the tractor?
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bob_isat
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by bob_isat » 09/10/07, 13:04

Meme reflection

We can not incriminate the bench, it's too easy ...

Maybe the pH of their tap water is neutral (pH = 7) and it would be worth it to test the addition of a little vinegar ...
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by Christophe » 09/10/07, 13:44

Too easy may be, but to my knowledge there is no tractor test bench with "dynamic" tests reproducing a load curve as one can see in plowing ... am I wrong?
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by gilgamesh » 09/10/07, 14:51

In observing the problematic and possible hypotesis of crispus I find that the main difference between the bench and reality is that in reality the vehicle is moving and the outside of the vehicle is in friction with the air - as crispus demonstrates in the possible explanation of the vortex. In this sense I wonder what are the results on a stationary engine - a generator for example - I did not like I saw nemero detailed of economy on these experience and it would be interesting to see if there is a diference between stationary and in motion .. (even for the vortex)
Well I know it's especulation - bath I just wanted to say something : Cheesy:
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by Christophe » 09/10/07, 15:09

Ben for a car the hypothesis is interesting ...

But considering the speed of a tractor ... I doubt that the friction of the air have an influence ...
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by Other » 09/10/07, 17:01

Hi

For a lot of experimenters who go to the test bench
the laying of the reactor is often recent, the water point not yet completed, the rod is still shiny on the stainless steel, the tests are done in a short time
it does not burn a 100 liters of fuel, it looks like it presses the engine barely hot test measurement on 15 minutes hello = result?

The farmer spends a day in his field, even if his measurements are imprecise with the amount of diesel he consumes he notices the differrence.
There are those who have installed pantons on generatices that work for a long time, this is the right place to check.

Now I'm only doing measurements on long trips
minimum 200km. I'm wasting time on small 50km trips, and I get lost in the analysis and modifications.
For starters, we do not put tap water or drinking water in a panton,
When I installed my rod in inconel, it took almost 6 months of driving for this to start having good results.

With a simple iron rod it goes faster and I can not say beyond any doubt that the quality of the material of the rod in Inconel or nickel has an influence, which I know for certain metals (the break-in oxidation) and very long, it is discouraging ..

A reactor that the stem has never heated remains a simple injection of water mist it will be difficult to exceed 15%
in these montages ..

A path of 500km of flat highway has a full until it overflows it is as significant as a test bench during 30 minutes especially if the values, are more than 30%, when you jerk off the figures of the manufacturer with a cars that has 350000 km either the manufacturer was wrong or your measurements are not good.

Andre
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by gilgamesh » 09/10/07, 19:43

This is a very good explanation andré and very plausible. What is the water to use then? Is there a relation with the electrical insulation of the rod the question of the break-in and the oxidation of the stem ??
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gilgamesh
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by Other » 09/10/07, 20:23

Hi
gilgamesh wrote:This is a very good explanation andré and very plausible. What is the water to use then? Is there a relation with the electrical insulation of the rod the question of the break-in and the oxidation of the stem ??


water ditches, rainwater, melted snow, water from the earth
When a bubbler has been operating for a year, there is what he needs. it works best when there is almost no water left.
When he dabbles in his shit. When he has evaporated an 100 liters of water, basically it accumulates something in spite of my bubbler is completely copper, I will not drink what is at the bottom
This, too, is part of the improvement over time that some people are observing (the question is why?)
For a long time I thought that steam was pure distilled water. It was a mistake to look at the color of the outlet ducts and the reactor passed more than water in it.
It is also one of the reasons that I persisted with a carburettor to pass the intergrality of the water and all that it contains.
for a long time I thought that water was something pure and universal .. we neglected small impurities and their influence on the steam
The farmer certainly do not put Perrier in his bubbler ...
the stem when it becomes hot it is covered with a coating like a varnish that results in an increase of temperature of exit and a better yield.


Andre
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