plasma-assisted combustion

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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bob_isat
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plasma-assisted combustion




View bob_isat » 02/03/06, 15:54

While surfing on the web, g found interesting things, which join the magnetic phenomena found near the reactor:

I have been questioned by this project of l'insa de lyon:

plasma-assisted combustion:

http://energie.insa-lyon.fr/projets/pr4_3.html

I quote:
"Automobile pollution is a growing source of CO2, CO, unburned hydrocarbon and NOx emissions.
Plasma treatment of the gases at the intake seems to be able to appreciably improve the operating conditions of a heat engine. "


While typing plasma-assisted combustion, or plasma-assisted combustion on google, we realize that there are people on the subject:

the snecma:

http://hal.ccsd.cnrs.fr/ccsd-00017739


the onera:
http://www.onera.fr/defa/experimentatio ... plasma.php


and French labs:
http://www-cep.cma.fr/Public/themes_de_ ... e_conversi

# Transfers of mass and heat in plasma medium.
# Plasma-particle interaction (influence of particles on radiative transfer).
# Thermodynamics and chemical kinetics of plasma - anaerobic hydrocarbon mixtures (cracking) or in the presence of oxygen (reforming, plasma assisted combustion).


He has also produced patented patents:

# Electrical process for converting hydrocarbons or hydrocarbon compounds, 05 / 52304 BF 25 / 07 / 2005.

# Reforming device for motor vehicle and electricity generator using this device, BF 0510272 07 / 10 / 2005.




, on which I can not put my hand.

What is a plasma? a gas in which the majority of particles are electrically charged?

but what is this story? and how could the reactor produce electric charges? !!

I have my idea on the question:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/un-debut-d ... t1416.html

I put my hand to cut that the steam is electrically charged by friction in the reactor and that this "thing" electrified improves the combustion ...
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jean63
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View jean63 » 08/03/06, 18:49

No time to read on, but I stick here to be warned if a discussion commits itself. I'm interested.

BIZARRE it does not interest anyone :!:
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bob_isat
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View bob_isat » 15/03/06, 14:14

jean63 wrote:No time to read on, but I stick here to be warned if a discussion commits itself. I'm interested.

BIZARRE it does not interest anyone :!:


well yeah :|

even if it's a bit long to read, I encourage everyone to take a look at all these references

I see gives the continuation of my investigations, even if I have the impression to speak in the desert:

In order to highlight the charge spreading by the fluid at the reactor, the current that is born between the reactor and a neutral potential (of the order of 10-4 amperes) is measured. This cournate is called "streaming current".

The phenomenon of electrification of a fluid circulating in a metal pipe has been studied extensively by the oil companies, who fear the phenomena of static electricity associated .... BOOM.

Unfortunately, most of this research on the subject is paying on the Internet!

they are mostly available on sciencedirect.com and www.ieee.org/, about 30 dollars coins !!

QA few recomandations anyway about what I found in the forgotten public domain

To improve the loading of water vapor, the flow in the reactor must be turbulent, the speed of flow to reach the maximum electrical load is 30 m / s, beyond it gains nothing more. As for the materials of the reactor, it is necessary that the surface of the tube and the reactor is rough in order to maximize the loading.

As for: why the pantone only works hot, I think I have an answer that confirms the theory of electrization by flow, I'll let you know ...
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jean63
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View jean63 » 15/03/06, 15:29

Here nobody comes to read you: you are a stranger, while this topic is very interesting.

To trigger the debate, you must cross the path of Andrew, PITMIX, lau, mmm, and others ..

My personal opinion: post your subject in "Experiments / Renault 5 doped" because PITMIX has concerns to develop the operation of his pantone and what is in question here. There is another subject where they debate but I do not remember the subject.

I read that it would be similar to what happens in a storm.
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
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View Other » 15/03/06, 16:17

Hello
Deceived you, I followed these posts with special attention.
I knew for a long time that for the reactor to work well there must be a certain speed of the fluid and that it must not be necessarily a chrome rod or too rough, but a ground rod is a pin stalk very little holes. (examined in the metallurgical laboratory)
when the turbulence any fluid that flows in the raz of a surface there is a (skin effect) a layer that sticks to the surface and a truffle layer and then a laminar layer.
So in a suitably reduced space rod tube and following its roughness the laminar layer must be very thin between these 2 turbulent layers, or even nonexistent.
A flow (turbulent surface) allows a better heat exchange with the reactor.
Contrary to what I thought the turbulence should not be produced with artifices in front of the stem, (I place a vortex generator in front of the stem very delicate to do because of its size 12,7mm of diameter with 6 blades)
For the flow velocity in a reactor this can reach 300kmh (higher than that at the threshold of the valve due to restriction)
although it is easy to play on the ducts to adapt these speeds, it is also for this reason that sometimes the output duct is electrically charged and other times nothing.
Turbulence is proportional to the flow velocity of the fluid
What I learn from your post is the 30 meters second, while I worked to increase this speed, while I exceed it!

But there are other reasons that make the difference between a reactor that works and one that does not work!
The particularity of the bubbler is not only to make good steam.

Andre
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lau
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View lau » 16/03/06, 01:01

bob_isat wrote:To improve the loading of water vapor, the flow in the reactor must be turbulent, the speed of flow to reach the maximum electrical load is 30 m / s, beyond it gains nothing more. As for the materials of the reactor, it is necessary that the surface of the tube and the reactor is rough in order to maximize the loading.


odd worm that we do not win beyond 30m / sec? while most on this forum are around 80m / sec I think.
As for the roughness, it is well worth the trouble to put stainless steel at a good price : Evil: I think my next reactor will be stub.
Why make complicated while the solution is simple ..
Andrew wrote:Contrary to what I thought the turbulence should not be produced with artifices in front of the stem, (I place a vortex generator in front of the stem very delicate to do because of its size 12,7mm of diameter with 6 blades)
It is this kind of feeling that is super long and often without result : Cry:
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jean63
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View jean63 » 16/03/06, 01:13

So lau, it was worth the shot that "I stick to it", but it was necessary that bob_isat restart the discussion. It is very troubling this story, but there must be conditions together that do not occur each time, which may explain the poor results of some (PITMIX for example)? What do you think ?

I printed the whole post of bob_isat: an engineering school interested in it is a good sign (INSA Lyon): will they listen to them?
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
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bob_isat
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View bob_isat » 16/03/06, 12:29

no I do not understand why his reactor does not work ...

It should be that it measures its air flow.

I think it takes the minimum of pressure drop on the output of the reactor in the collector, ie a pipe diameter of 8 diameter mm, as on tractors.

it serves no purpose to me to put a small nozzle in this place, except to limit the flow of plasma. What do you think?


With regard to the theoretical approach, plasma assisted combustion, it would be necessary to have a flow rate in the reactor proportional to the engine speed:

Suppose that a quantity q of plasma is necessary to treat the combustion of 4 cylinders), if the engine rotates at 2000 rpm, a plasma flow of q * 2000 / min is required.

If you run at 3000 rpm, you need a plasma flow of q * 3000 / min ... etc

Easy on a diesel: the depression in the collector is proportional to the speed of the air squared ((Bernoulli's law)), therefore to the flow squared, therefore to the engine speed squared.

The flow rate in the reactor is proportional to the pressure difference on either side of it (manifold pressure, ambient pressure).

On a diesel, we have a plasma flow proportional to the square of the engine speed, it is not linear but it goes at least in the right direction.


For a gasoline, it gates: if we inject after the butterfly, everything is biased, we have a strong closed butterfly pressure, so a high plasma flow in low loads: it's not going at all!

I think we need to inject before the butterfly ... I do not know how do people who currently boost their species ...

As for the work in progress on plasma-assisted combustion at cnrs, lea de poitiers, at edf and at the Paris mining school, they are locked in triple turn, for the moment in any case.

So we have to graze here and there, what I'm doing right now ...

I may have a plan with someone who has access to publications on www.sciencedirect.com , so see, I'll let you know
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jean63
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View jean63 » 16/03/06, 13:01

Thank you for all these ideas and attempts to explain.

On my LPG vehicle, the LPG intake is located before the throttle by a venturi made especially to the diameter of the air intake in the intake manifold, but here it is different the LPG gas admitted does not come in complement of the essence but in replacement.

I think your reasoning is good; there must be a problem of speed in the reactor (too small diameter or bends at the inlet and / or outlet that can slow the flow of air?
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
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bob_isat
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View bob_isat » 16/03/06, 15:22

yeah I think
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