Pantone Article in Science and Life November 2007

[MichelM]

Yes, but for a vehicle given here the automatic 300TD (123) we can reduce the performance we can not reduce consumption at this level, I gave André the manufacturer consumptions to steady speed 80km / h and 120km / h they are well above ...
I now have a 300TD 124 auto series, I can roll slowly be very careful, empty, I'm still at 9L and if not more. The differences of conso with the diesels of this type are minimal despite the driving, the speed, the load unlike a gasoline engine which has great variations.
By cons I do not agree with those (sincere) who made with, for example, a 190D before: 9L after editing: 6L (?), The 190D does not make such consumption and in fact they returned to normal numbers.

Michel

[Grumberg]

I receive objections. All this is to look closely, but it will not be easy to protocol ...

[Other]

Hi

Like a torpedo, admit that it's not very bad! What I just copied from my own duck, it describes pretty much what André himself said about his Mercedes, whose maximum speed has decreased (if I remember the post where he talks about it). Again, if the kit impact performance, it has no interest unless naturally the owner of an old vehicle agrees to reduce the perfs to lower its consumption (but in this case, it can also change car and benefit from a better depollution, for example: the particulate filter, that presents certain advantages).

It is wrong to believe that big engines are always greedy,
For the maximum speed no vehicle sold in America can exploit it legally, has to go on a track, or be equipped with a radar detector (Valentin)
The cars are overmotorized so apart from dragging a horse trailer, the power?

the accellerations that gives what to do big black marks on the road at startup? (in the contraventions there is a space (make the tires squeal)

On a Buick park avenue engine 3,8 liter 1600kg automatic air conditioner on, driving at 100kmh 1800 rpm cruse control (just a turbulator), flat highway
430km with 32,2 liters is 7,72 l
In winter city driving the consumption almost double, it is the problem of these cars ..
On the Merecedes
275 km 16,3 liters is 5,94l
634 km 42,14 liters diesel and 5,4 liters water is 6,65litresau 100km
in city driving (accelleration) and small runs it runs around 9 liters.
the best consomation came after having modified the sytéme injection of rainwater and vinegar next (Bob isat)
In my case there is water only if the turbo grows
that's why in town I push on it to spit a little water in the antechamber.
the challenge is not to have results on the highway, this is known for a long time, it is to make it work in urban use
90 kmh is a battle with heat recovery, and without clamping and maximum power loss it is practically impossible, unless you have a variable opening exhaust duct.
We have gone beyond the stage of trying to prove that the system works, we try rather to make it more efficient and that it works in a daily use small runs, low load, it is there, challenges it.
It does not take a lot of time to build sytems, but to do the tests, it takes months and years, it is the tests of improvement that use the little handyman like us ..
That's exactly 35929 km I did with water doping on Mercedes
and 21902 km on a Chevrolet Lumina gasoline engine

Andre

[Grumberg]

the challenge is not to have results on the highway, this is known for a long time, it is to make it work in urban use

I do not make you say it. But you will have trouble to believe me that a big engine does not consume more, simply because of its cubic capacity, than a small one!

[pluesy]

on the change of car I do not agree too much ....

I have never had too much money and changing cars has always been a big financial investment even if I bought them secondhand and invest 15000 euros in a new car under the pretext that 1 food liter less 100 I can not find not necessarily economical or ecological

1ere car 2200 14 pallet 10l in town 120l on road purchase price XNUMX euros (gs hs and hole in crankcase redone by me)

2eme car ford taunus 2L v6 15L in town 9L on road purchase price 300 euros

3eme car citroen DS 20 that I was given because hydraulic hs hydraulic pump change recovered on a cx and it went away

4eme car renault 11 tc (1200cc) 8L in town 6L on road (the best I had at the conso gasoline level) purchase price 600 euros

5eme car citroen visa twin cylinder (600cc) 10L in town 6L on road (given by a girlfriend)


6eme car 16 12 very carbide 7L in town 150L on road that I was given and that cost me the price of a new engine that I bought the case XNUMX euros and that I mounted me even

for my last car (the one I use now) I made the jump and I switched to diesel and I will not go back ...

19 1992 / 6.5 100 max bx in the city and 5L / 100 400 on the road paid XNUMX euros it is the best car I had at the conso level it rolls from time to time to the oil of frying recup (pump bosch indirect injection) and she loves it (fishing hell when I put ) water-doped in the rules I think I can go under the 4L / 100 bar

this inventory of my cars allowed me to notice that small engine and small car does not rhyme necessarily with small conso the comparison visa / r11 and enough edifying one has the double of cubic capacity of the other and yet that which consumes the more malgres of poor performance is the small displacement

I did not choose my cars according to the criterion of performance or conso but according to the purchase price and I think that a lot of motorist are like me they have a certain sum to put in their car and it takes the one who has the most advantage in their eyes a single or a father of 4 child do not have the same imperative in terms of car and a family will necessarily have a bigger engine than a city car ...

[Grumberg]

Must compare vehicles of similar generation! It is enough to look at the list of the Ademe to realize that the big emissions are associated with the big engines. And of course, there is no question of forcing anyone to change cars. I simply observe that technology is making progress and that this progress - FAP, NOx filters, hybridization for diesel in particular - is moving things forward in the direction of reducing consumption and emissions. Whatever you say, the change of vehicle - new or secondhand but more recent generation - is rather beneficial.

[Colmant]

hello, it will be interesting to know the conso DS, I have an uncle ui had one at the time in Geneva and said it consumed very little 4 or 5 liters I think

For the 190 D mercos, there are two engines 2 liters atmo and 2,5 liters (turbo?)
I have at the bottom of the garden a two liters, 350 000 km but breech HS

[Capt_Maloche]

certainly the cost to purchase is not to neglect,
that's why I bought my Renault Espace Gasoline 3000 € cheaper than the diesel version knowing that with the price difference gasoline / diesel I would have to roll 150 000 km to make up the difference .. .

and at the rate of 15 000 km / year there was no picture.

[Flytox]

Hello Grumberg

I simply observe that technology is making progress and that this progress - FAP, NOx filters, diesel hybridization in particular - is making progress in reducing consumption and emissions. Whatever you say, the change of vehicle - new or secondhand but more recent generation - is rather beneficial.

There is food and drink in this "progress". FAP filters and other catalysts for NOx have never reduced consumption, it is rather the opposite. Hybridization is done with a rather well "optimized" engine with better than average results.

For particle emissions, recent engine technologies with very high injection pressures have brought with them very very fine particles that are by far the most dangerous to health. And these particles are not stopped by particulate filters !!! FAPs stop only part of the particles that are seen .... There is rather a backtrack.

Clearly I'm not at all sure that the newer vehicles are the least polluting. In this research to pollute less, there is a place for research with water doping ...
With a bit of development we could do as well if not better than the most recent cars.
A+

[pluesy]

hello, it will be interesting to know the conso DS, I have an uncle ui had one at the time in Geneva and said it consumed very little 4 or 5 liters I think

it was a proto step modified by chanbrin?

I was in 10 / 12litres 100 with mine but it was a carburetted version with semi automatic box DS21 there was DS23 and electronic injection she had to consume a little less but not half when it would amaze me! !!

but the I think we start to be off topic will have to create a post on the conso of the old gimbardes ...