Which heating system for BBC home?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...

What preferred heating mode for BBC / underfloor heating?

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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 27/05/11, 15:06

Clearly Pb1488 did not understand anything that we wrote !!

in vertical geothermal energy (around € 25000) including the heat pump

This part of the sentence contains dramatic contradictions typical of our deceptive society !!

The term geothermal energy is bogus, a misleading term, a real scam, because it is not the heat of the earth but in reality solar heat stored spontaneously, underground for years, average between summer and winter, by thermal contact between atmosphere and earth !!

Then a heat pump, needs electricity which pushes towards nuclear power, absurd, if we do not want a Chernobyl-Fukushima in France, sooner or later it will be certain, given that nuclear power and people cannot be infallible in perpetuity. !!

In addition, Canadian wells are often small, because an input heat pump needs an amount of heat equal to the thermal consumption of the house over the winter and therefore cools the earth a lot to provide that heat.
It is necessary to do the calculation, but, in order not to cool this earth too much to 12 ° C, with 0 ° C and less outside for months, the volume of earth necessary is between 1000 and 2000m3 for a well-insulated house and 4 times more if Ancient !!
So check the calculation of the volume of soil taken, but it must be greater than that for storing summer solar heat in the same well, because, then, the temperature amplitude, between 20 ° C and 60 ° C and more with solar collectors, is in this case much greater than for a few degrees below 12 ° C !! To have only 4 ° C of cooling from the Canadian well, it takes 10 times more earth, than to heat 40 ° C, with the same amount of heat available !!
So there is another scam with the undersized Canadian well without saying it, because otherwise too expensive to dig !!
In addition, the well must be more than 3m deep, minimum distance of diffusion of the cold over 4 months !! (with some rock soils, it is 6m)
To calculate, take the heat capacity of the earth multiplied by the allowable temperature difference, (4 ° C from 12 ° C to 8 ° C) and calculate the volume of earth necessary to provide the heat necessary for heating with the heat pump!

So certainty of repeated scams, with as soon as it is cold a week, after the well, the air inlet temperature of the heat pump barely higher than that of the outside !!!!

Without speaking about those who paid 30000 € for a CAP that only worked for 3 days, time to pay for a bankrupt company, without ever seeing their lost € 30000 again, with an irreparable, badly mounted CAP !!!
Case of friends of the parents of one of my beautiful daughters !!

Not to mention the PAC which has become obsolete in less than a few years, standards (my personal case), without repair parts because the manufacturer has disappeared, bought back, etc ... to be completely bought (my personal case).

Instead of the heat pump, it is better to have summer sensors storing the heat wasted in the summer in the well to heat the winter as carried out in www.dlsc.ca
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post203963.html#203963

Only considering that, after consuming more of anything, no one offers it, this solution that saves the planet without CO2 !!

In the short term, like for me, the cheapest is to burn free wood and free plants abandoned everywhere as I see around my home, 900Km away, in an insert, stove or mixed boiler with wood, pellets !!!
In addition to doing the exercise of collecting and sawing by hand this wood lost at home and its neighbors which smoke you for days to burn it in the open air, is excellent for health, since we do not exercise enough. physical, given the obesity epidemic.

Finally, I hope I didn't get tired of writing this text for plums !!
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 27/05/11, 15:11

pb2488 wrote:The pellet boiler is not much cheaper: Around -8000 € (In fact, the price of drilling). Reliability level, it should not be better (there is a whole bunch of moving mechanical parts), you need the chimney flue with its maintenance, you have to fill up with granule.
In short, not easy to decide ...

PS: € 25000 (actually closer to 20000), it's all-inclusive: heating for 145m² in underfloor heating + DHW. The CAP (around COP4.6) in there is around 10000 €.


Already it is granules not granules the correct spelling!

Yes for the price but much cheaper to use and much cleaner on primary energy !! Do you gripe about a chimney flue when you want heated floors (ie the most expensive solution to install)? A little out of place, isn't it? Oh yes, you have to fill the tank with granules ... we have nothing for nothing ...

But according to me, in BBC, you do NOT need centralized heating ... I do not even understand that one proposes it to you?

Now if you absolutely want underfloor heating for comfort ... then yes you need a hydraulic network. But you can do that very well with a pellet stove with hot water production ...

Heated floors are often associated with geothermal energy in people's heads because of the low T °, ​​but with a 3 or 4-way valve, you make the temperature low from any source of calories!

We use solar energy and wood.

And for information, our PCs run 4 to 5 months a year ... no need for more, we are 400m in the Ardennes and we are FAR from being in RT2005 and even less BBC on the insulation side ...

In your place I would really look at the valiant "solar" boiler in detail: https://www.econologie.com/forums/pompe-a-ch ... 10811.html

(the difficulty will be to find a pro who wants to sell / ride it to you, I think because it's brand new ...)

ps: the COP of 4.6 is lab COP, ideal conditions ... do not count to be 4.6 in COPA !! If you don't know what a COPA is: https://www.econologie.com/geothermie-et ... -3733.html
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tigrou_838
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by tigrou_838 » 27/05/11, 15:34

I see that the old ideas are still there.

from everything I just read:

1 ° why not put solar collectors to couple the esc and the electricity, your electric consumption for hot water will be much less (including purchase price, maintenance price) than a thermodynamic balloon.

2 ° you put a very low temperature electric underfloor heating and you win on the total price (purchase price included the cap drilling etc ....)

3 ° I see that you want no fireplace, no pellets, so since you want everything electric you can also put an electric boiler, between the purchase price and the price of the installation plus consumption I am sure you will win a lot.

these are just ideas for you but personally I will not do any of this, a good hot water underfloor heating associated with solar and very pleasant every day and especially maintenance-free and very cheap, especially when building the house .

but hey what I say, only look at me.

just tell me one thing, you don't work at EDF where it only pays 10% of the kwh price, by chance.

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pb2488
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by pb2488 » 27/05/11, 15:35

Christophe wrote:Yes for the price but much cheaper to use and much cleaner on primary energy !!
In use apparently, it's kif kif. I have a colleague who had made a study between these 2 cases, he had found the same annual cost, however, he chose the pellet boiler because he was renovating with radiators.
After that, it also depends on the evolution of the electricity vs pellet sales prices.

Christophe wrote:Do you gripe about a chimney flue when you want heated floors (ie the most expensive solution to install)?
I am not sure that a heated floor is much more expensive than radiators. However, my wife wants a heated floor, I admit it's nice)

Christophe wrote:But according to me, in BBC, you do NOT need centralized heating ... I do not even understand that one proposes it to you?
Well yeah, they all offer it otherwise you have to go passive.

Christophe wrote:In your place I would really look at the valiant "solar" boiler in detail: https://www.econologie.com/forums/pompe-a-ch ... 10811.html
How much does it cost?
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by Christophe » 27/05/11, 15:39

pb2488 wrote:Well yeah, they all offer it otherwise you have to go passive.


Because they want to invest the unnecessary !!

A BBC, especially if it is climatic (is it your case?): For me it is auxiliary heating which it needs not central heating ... therefore identical to a "classic" house ...

If you pay for the insulation + the classic heating, from a moment you are clearly losing money !!

pb2488 wrote:
Christophe wrote:In your place I would really look at the valiant "solar" boiler in detail: https://www.econologie.com/forums/pompe-a-ch ... 10811.html
How much does it cost?


We do not know precisely, in the subject (read it) there is a range of 12 to 15 000 € HT (to be checked) but at this price (I believe, I hope ... otherwise scam!), You have the solar panels (how many m² ???) and therefore the solar DHW included ...
Last edited by Christophe the 27 / 05 / 11, 15: 43, 1 edited once.
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pb2488
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Re: bbc heater




by pb2488 » 27/05/11, 15:42

tigrou_838 wrote:1 ° why not put solar collectors to couple the esc and the electricity, your electric consumption for hot water will be much less (including purchase price, maintenance price) than a thermodynamic balloon.
For the ECS, I made the quotes:
3000 € for thermodynamics and 5600 € for solar thermal and in the region where I am, there is not enough sun, the performance of the solar balloon is lousy: like -40% elec compared to a traditional counter - 60% with thermodynamics. Well, the reliability of thermodynamics worries me but I have to go through it to have the bbc label and the credit that goes with it.

tigrou_838 wrote:2 ° you put a very low temperature electric underfloor heating and you win on the total price (purchase price included the cap drilling etc ....)
Forbidden in BBC !!!

tigrou_838 wrote:3 ° I see that you want no fireplace, no pellets, so since you want everything electric you can also put an electric boiler, between the purchase price and the price of the installation plus consumption I am sure you will win a lot.
Forbidden in BBC !!!

tigrou_838 wrote:these are just ideas for you but personally I will not do any of this, a good hot water underfloor heating associated with solar and very pleasant every day and especially maintenance-free and very cheap, especially when building the house .
Associated with what?

tigrou_838 wrote:just tell me one thing, you don't work at EDF where it only pays 10% of the kwh price, by chance.
no LOL
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by Christophe » 27/05/11, 15:46

Christophe wrote:you have the solar panels (how many m² ???) and therefore the solar DHW included ...


They talk about 3 panels so 6 to 7m² ... it seems light to me to reduce consumption as much ...

To be continued in the dedicated topic!
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pb2488
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by pb2488 » 27/05/11, 15:46

Christophe wrote:Because they want to invest the unnecessary !!
The builder took it out of the price for me so 0 profit for him.

Christophe wrote:A BBC, especially if it's climatic (is it your case?)
ie?

Christophe wrote:We do not know precisely, in the subject (read it) there is a range of 12 to 15 000 € HT (to be checked) but at this price (I believe, I hope ... otherwise scam!), You have the solar panels (how many m² ???) and therefore the solar DHW included ...
It remains to be verified because that makes a difference but in my opinion at this price there you do not have it.
And then reliability level?
But I am open to everything, I am looking for the "right" solution.
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by tigrou_838 » 27/05/11, 15:53

tell me which region are you from?

from the esc at 5600euros to the construction of the house, tell me the builder will make a fortune at this price.

on average it turns between 2000 to 3000 maximum for the solar esc with electric complement.

here in the east also the mentalities are hard with the solar one and yet it works very very very well.
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by Christophe » 27/05/11, 15:58

Climatic building = use of solar gains in winter and masks in summer (to put it simply) in order to regulate automatically while having recourse to minimal external energy sources!

It is the BABA of the BBC house (if your architect did not take it into account and only insulated to go to BCC, well it's a bad !!) !! Nothing but the orientation of the terrain and the alignment of the roads is fundamental (but I agree that we often still do anything)

Green house in general: http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-ecologique.php
The (bio) climatism under the microscope: http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-ma ... atisme.php
You will also look at this:
http://www.fiabitat.com/comparatif-mais ... nnelle.php

Reliability level it is certainly much more reliable than a heat pump since there is no COMPRESSOR just a few circulators !!

Electricity consumption has nothing to do with a heat pump

So take a look here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/pompe-a-ch ... 10811.html

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