What is the efficiency of a solar heating?

[Luc and Cindy]

Hello, to answer Christophe concerning the price of the Vmc double flux (I expressed myself badly for the price), so I detail:

-a 4150 euros TTC or 3470 HT for detailed detailed I give you the rates of the main elements HT
90% dual flow power plant -1750
2 distribution boxes -400
100 mls of conduit diam 75 -366
5 mls of insulated flexible duct -51
everything else (ventilation, extraction, air intake sleeve seals, plenum, etc.) -903


All by a local distributor who brings his products from Germany. I am not talking about plastic CMV, after seeing the stuff, it seems to be of good quality (we only know the quality of a product when this one is down! but is it too late?)

But there I believe to go out of the solar subject.

[jean63]

Capt_maloche wrote:

At the price of a solar installation, approx. 600 € / m² excluding transmitters is hardly profitable.
Suffice to say that solar heating by sensor is to be forgotten as the price of energy has not at least doubled !!

Better to use direct radiation through glazing

At the current gas price, the cost of the gas energy bill on this building would be around 2250 € / year and the investment in panels and hydraulic kit of around 42 000 € !!

with aid at 50% on investment, the amortization is still more than 10 years

Of course we only talk about cash
ecological side, it's pretty good

Right, that's what I tell myself every time I want to install solar collectors in addition to my gas boiler + underfloor heating.

And here we are not talking about aging sensors and installation in general.

What pleases me well on the other hand is the passive house (see the example given by Christophe in the Belgian Ardennes).
https://www.econologie.com/forums/une-maison ... t3520.html
But here another question annoys me: how is it possible to have 20 ° C indoors with 0 ° C outside and no sun (cloudy weather) without a heating supplement in the house (at least a wood) ? , because to store heat in the clay wall behind the bay window, you need sunshine !!

In addition this house has a double flow VMC but no Canadian well. So, despite the exchange of outgoing calories with the incoming cold air, there must be a loss of calories .....

We do not know what is the additional cost in insulating and caulking (40cms in walls and roof)? Frankly if it works as they say, it's perfect for the planet (except the consumption of electricity for VMC and household electrical appliances).

So in summary, if you build a new PASSIVE house like our Belgians and you save all the additional costs and troubles related to solar collectors, heat pumps (burying pipes in the ground), regulation that no longer works, circulators, valves 3 blocked tracks, sludge, freezing problems, overheating problems with solar collectors ........... BUILD A PASSIVE HOUSE.

If I were to build today, I think that would be what I would do (ie the same house, but with the 40 cms of insulation and triple glazing instead of double if that was within the possibilities funding !!), but would I dare not put a heating system inside? ... I don't know.

In 1985, I was above insulation standards: organic climate house with large bay windows to the South and West, garage to the North as a thermal buffer, wooden frame (no thermal bridges), 15 cms of rock wool in the walls, 20 cms in the roof, very insulating exterior red cedar cladding ...... and yet you need a boiler in cold weather to have a correct temperature inside. Of course, on sunny days, by opening the bay window facing south which communicates with the veranda + shutter open on bay window facing west => it heats up by itself, but like ajd: -2 ° C ext + north wind + overcast day without sun, the boiler sends water at 35 ° C to the underfloor heating.

[the middle]

I also want to break my south wall, and put double or triple glazing.
It is the most "free of heaters"
When you look at a vacuum sensor ... it's just a water pipe that goes through a vacuum tube, and then you need a circulator, a regulation, to regulate all this brol.
As André says, nothing like simplicity ... therefore, a large bay facing south!
Why make it complicated when it can be simple.

[Capt_Maloche]

VOOOILA! that's ecological!

[AIR]

mwé triple glazing ..
Tell me if I'm wrong ..
And if we put a room in a glass window of nine square meters in the center of the house on the south side, put inertia sensors and inside the water pipes that would take up water and that we would rotate and accumulate in a reserve of two thousand liters and after that we would return the next day?
That tell you?
Without the sun ... what do we do?
Solar panels ?
a CAP?

[Luc and Cindy]

Cindy:

So to come back to our case if I sum up all your say, there is no ideal or perfect heating since you all come back to passive heating
Indeed I made a list (quickly made) of all existing heating systems, all energies combined and I see that there are always advantages (ecological, practical, low maintenance, prices, ...) and disadvantages for each of them (pollution, difficult installation, costly maintenance, prices, ...)

So actually, the best would be to be able to do without heating, at least in large part, because, as a precaution, I think it is wise to put a little something anyway in case! (a wood stove for example)

So, an over-insulated house with a VMC double flow (+ Canadian well) and a wood heater for in case, should that be enough for you ???

We absolutely must learn about how to over-insulate our house!
Triple glazing, useful or not (it seems that the sun comes in less with that)?
External lining of walls, with what?
Roof insulation, how?
What will be the additional cost of all this?
Will the banker agree?

[the middle]

This is why I recommend taking your time before building. (This is a personal opinion)

Anyway, the best heating is insulation, then .... the gifts of the sun

[jean63]

Will the banker agree?

This is the real question because if he agrees, you can do everything: over-insulate, triple-glazed, solarize, PACize, PCiser, photovoltaic, VMCiser, Canadian well ....... and ultimately have a great eco house ..........; unless we count the tons of CO2 emitted to manufacture, transport the elements and also build this econological building.

[bham]

Cindy:
So, an over-insulated house with a VMC double flow (+ Canadian well) and a wood heater for in case, should that be enough for you ???

Well the extra wood, it's just the extra if it's super insulated or it's permanent if it's less well insulated, it all depends, and there it is either a simple wood stove or mass.

We absolutely must learn about how to over-insulate our house!
Triple glazing, useful or not (it seems that the sun comes in less with that)?

Yes, no doubt, since 2 of the 3 glazing (against 1 pane with double glazing) are said to be "low emissivity", ie they are coated with a metallic deposit reflecting infrared. This deposit is effective in both directions, it slows down the transmission of heat from the inside to the outside but also vice versa. I did not succeed in having any confirmation from the mirror makers. And near the windows, not even the trouble of dreaming. So it is a choice to be made between solar gains and heat losses. I chose triple glazing facing southwest because I have a lot of sun in summer but relatively little in winter because of the shadows cast by surrounding houses.
Regarding the price, the additional cost is zero (see Internorm) or even modest if we are talking about custom-made windows and therefore not at the "Brico thing" price of course.

External lining of walls, with what?

straw, sheep wool, ... etc

What will be the additional cost of all this?
Will the banker agree?

There will be no additional cost if you drop the solar and / or other positions. Solar is great, but it's just not yet mastered enough by French heating engineers.
And if you can talk to Christophe, maybe he will report on the passive house in the Ardennes. And then you can ask any questions you want.

[Did67]

The drop in efficiency in summer is explained by the fact that your boiler will “heat up” just to heat the water. Then, when stopped, it will let go of all the calories, which will be lost.

And it will go up in temperature to heat the water, and so on ...

Now, the fact remains that a CESI, installed turnkey, at the price you indicate, is at the limit of financial profitability ...

That said, do you always have to gain to invest in a few things? How profitable is your car?

I have had a CESI since 2002 I believe. And since the transition to a pellet boiler (whose fuel is cheaper than fuel oil), the IRR (return on investment time) has lengthened further ...