What is the efficiency of a solar heating?

[Christine]

1 - an example of a passive solar house => http://www.labonnemaison.fr/
They announce 12 euros / month of heating !!! I am very skeptical.

Me too ... especially when this site is sponsored by Maison Phenix ... house clones always at the limit of insulation level standards .... surely a publicity stunt ...

In addition there is much to liken that it is in the south of the south of France

Now we can salute the "eco-construction" approach of a large home builder ... he could very well have done nothing ...

[bham]

The living room faces south with bay window, buffer room to the north (garage), kitchen to the west, 37 "monomur" brick wall, attic insulated with 30cm (I think!) Of cellulose wadding, Canadian well , solar water heater (that's for sure), ground insulation with cork, heated floor (regardless of the system chosen), Terracotta on the ground floor, roof slope at 45 ° for the panels,

Well I surely forget but I think it's already not bad, isn't it? [/ i]

Yes indeed, it's already a very good start. On the financial side, it may be necessary to see item by item which can be subject to modifications; for example straw to replace monomur (if this item is financially important) or triple glazing to replace double glazing (very little or no extra cost).
Another concept would be to take the Scandinavian stove not as a backup but as main heating and to take the solar as backup heating which can allow you, at first, not to install the solar right away and to see what are your heating needs in addition to the stove. Then you can also wonder about the need for a heated floor. It can be replaced by oversized radiators, suitable for low temperatures, which can be easily integrated into a new construction, so that they are not annoying. You can put the cost difference in further insulation.
And then, unless you have forgotten, a dual flow VMC connected to the Canadian well.
In summary, with Scandinavian stove, Canadian well and VMC double flow (there is already about 15000 €!), If the house is well designed and well insulated and if the chore of wood does not scare you, I am not not sure that solar heating is an immediate necessity.

[jean63]

Ah yes by the way I forgot, it's Mr. Borloo who has THE SOLUTION !!! He gives the money and then we can install whatever we want

[Luc and Cindy]

Luke takes over

Hello, I intervene to take up a few remarks:

- To use the suggestion of bham, Canadian well 2200 euros, 4500 for VMC double flow at 90% efficiency all to be installed. The stove estimates run between 2500 and 5500 depending on the model and excluding tax credit.

- What to think of the electrical resistances (800w) which couple at the output of the double flow CMV for the remaining 10% (and opt for photovoltaic rather than thermal for the rest)

- Concerning the monomur subject, we chose it for its thermal inertia.

- Last point and then I stop with my speech , you do not recommend the underfloor heating at first to save elsewhere. In all cases I have to insulate the floor, (the cost of a heated floor is 60% on the insulation) the rest is a lot of labor. It is not worth it to pass the pipes on hold.


Thanks for all the responses we got. I hope I did not upset people with my speech, I describe all his explanations so that you understand our visions of things and maybe better orient us.

PS: The phenix house is not located in the south but in the center region (prototype house presented in natural habitat published in June if I remember correctly.)

[Christophe]

4500 for double flow VMC with 90% efficiency all to be installed

This price is pure and simple VOL! It's funny how prices soar as soon as a product becomes subsidized.

A very good VMC with 90% calorie recovery is 2000 to 2500 € PAS PLUS (I'm also looking for one but not for now) ...... don't go to the guy who gave you this price ...

A VMC of 60 to 70% of yield is less than 800 € there is one at LM at 750 ...

Find out a bit on the net ... you will see ...

It is not worth it to pass the pipes on hold.

Yes 100% ... it is not possible (economically speaking) to install a PC on a house that is not under construction ...

[Capt_Maloche]

the best heat recovery units with rotary exchangers and have 85% efficiency (Swegon brand for example)

70% is already very good as long as we add a Canadian well !!

[bham]

Luke takes over
- To use the suggestion of bham, Canadian well 2200 euros, 4500 for VMC double flow at 90% efficiency all to be installed. The stove estimates run between 2500 and 5500 depending on the model and excluding tax credit.

So I was a little optimistic about the € 15000 advanced. It is rather better if it is going down. See also other VMC prices as Chris says.

- What to think of the electrical resistances (800w) which couple at the output of the double flow CMV for the remaining 10% (and opt for photovoltaic rather than thermal for the rest)

I do not know if photovoltaics is profitable to overcome this need which I would describe as punctual.

- Concerning the monomur subject, we chose it for its thermal inertia.

In terms of thermal inertia, there are better: solid brick walls in terracotta, earth bricks, ... and it's cheaper. But hey, nothing prevents you from insulating the monomur from the outside by making homemade boxes filled with sheep wool for example, see the topic on insulation from the outside.

- Last point and then I stop with my speech , you do not recommend the underfloor heating at first to save elsewhere. In all cases I have to insulate the floor, (the cost of a heated floor is 60% on the insulation) the rest is a lot of labor. It is not worth it to pass the pipes on hold.

I do not recommend the underfloor heating, I only say that there is a choice to make, since you are limited on the financial side. When we see that it is possible today to make passive houses with a reasonable additional cost, it is good to wonder if the cost of the heated floor is justified since in the absence of a passive house you can still make a detached house.
Yes, you have to insulate your floor anyway. Either the insulation represents 60% of the cost but what are you talking about? cork? polyurethane? If you talk about cork, why not insulate with polyurethane?
It will stay under your floating screed, it's not ecological but the pipes in the floor are not either.
I think the danger is to overbid, to add this and that, for good measure, and if possible with ecological materials. I admit that I would tend to do the same but the portfolio has its limits.
So yes the floor heating can be interesting to set up at the risk that it will not be used, but it is a personal choice to make.
Sometimes it is better to keep it simple than to seek perfection.

[Capt_Maloche]

- What to think of the electrical resistances (800w) which couple at the output of the double flow CMV for the remaining 10% (and opt for photovoltaic rather than thermal for the rest)

No need for electrical resistances in the case of a double flow, the complement will be achieved by heating the house

... advise against heating the floor first to save elsewhere ...

The underfloor heating is the best way to make profitable a solar installation or other system with high output, because of the low water temperatures, moreover, are cost is around 60 € per m² excluding production of heating.

[the middle]

Hello,
When you're young, and you want to build,
You have to take your time to think about its construction!
The stakes are high.
To avoid wasting time, unnecessary research, you should know that the best heating is the passive house.
A passive house costs 15% in addition to a normal house.
But in the long run, you get your money back, and much more.
In our time, building differently is more than a shame.
You should also know that there are state aids. (Bonuses)
Why time?
Find a good contractor who knows this job (there are waiting times)
You must also find out about all the techniques, state aid, etc.
It's the biggest, and most important investment of your life ...
Think about it

[Christophe]

you should know that the best heating is the passive house

I do not agree ... for me it is the "ideal" house (in theory because there is no such thing as the ideal house) that would be a fair compromise between passive house and bioclimatic house.

The heating of a passive house is carried out ... by the inhabitants and internal losses. This is why we rarely see compact fluorescent bulbs in passive houses ... and that the electrical cost (VMC in particular) is rarely put forward ...

The openings are limited to the maximum to avoid heat loss (even a window with a K less than 1 is bcp less good in terms of insulation than a wall with R = 3) ... so the solar gains are also limited ...